Blues scale

[jancivil]

The notes sound the same, but they must have the correct name if you're talking theory and notation etc, or everyone will get hopelessly confused.

In practice for string or wind players, the difference in key relations is a real difference. Per E, a D# in a line is a leading tone. A solo violinist or somebody, the first chair fiddle, is going to give it an extra amount of 'leading' in terms of intonation (sharper).

A composer will tend to write an Eb if the next note is the D below; that descending movement is going to be intoned flatter more often than not. So there are contexts in which you might see 'both versions of the note', and they will be intoned differently, significantly.

for a keyboard player, they're stuck with 12 notes. A deficiency in terms of intervals in harmony, because a lot of the intervals are compromised in 12 ET. Which gets to be another topic... Wind and string players adjust their intonation in concert with the ensemble, to get the purest harmony. This is why samples can be pretty deficient in orchestration. (VSL addresses this with various intonations and a mode of operation to utilize this.)

[someone called simon]

A composer will tend to write an Eb if the next note is the D below; that descending movement is going to be intoned flatter more often than not. So there are contexts in which you might see 'both versions of the note', and they will be intoned differently, significantly.

That's interesting, didn't know about that.

[jopy]

part of the reason a blues scale doesn't have a second is because it's based on a pentatonic scale--like lots of west african music. if you think of the c blues in terms of an Eb major pentatonic with the option of a flatted third (so it's major and minor at the same time, if you take my meaning) you're probably getting closer to how the thing actually happened, at least as far as i've always heard it.

slaves in america were denied their original music, so they had to start from a combination of what they knew (pentatonics) and what they were allowed to use (protestant hymns). if you throw a pentatonic scale over the basic form of a protestant hymn you are pretty close to early gospel or blues, at least as far was we can tell that pre-recorded music probably sounded like. then imagine that you want to add some expression to it, so you elide from the major third to the minor third or vice versa, a common african vocal technique. whammo--blues scale. like jan says, it wasn't developed via western theory originally, it was more based on smashing together west african concepts of melody with european harmony.

[Audiosprite]

the very existence of a sharp 9 is predicated on a major third in the chord. Otherwise it's just a minor third and D# is misleading. Try again.

You just agreed with me again. Now I know I'm right.

No, you are certainly not right. I did not agree with you. Can you read English? 'Otherwise' is a clue to the differences in yours and my statements.

If it's a sharp nine there is a major third in the chord. OTHERWISE it is a minor tenth, a tenth being third plus an octave. Which from C is an Eb. C, D, E. Three letters. That's a third. C to D# is an augmented second (or ninth). C, D, two letters. A second. A ninth is a second plus an octave.

This couldn't be more clear. Spelling things wrong for a newb is going to be misleading and a bad way to proceed. I am trying to help the OP and provide the best information to all. OTOH, you seem interested in trying to gainsay me and now you're invested in 'I'm right'.

I said "in a major blues setting." You said "is predicated on a major third in the chord." You agreed with me dude.

[jancivil]

"Thinking of the m3 as a D# isn't really a wrong way to look at it, though."

I do not agree with this.
One more time for the world: a C to a D is spelled as a second.
In a sharp nine chord, it is a sharp nine. A 9 is not a 10. A 2 is not a 3.

In a 'major blues setting', it is STILL a minor third. this ambiguity is known as the blues third.

calling it a third, particularly in the context of showing a newb the right thing, is not right. It is, really, the "wrong way to look at it".

"in a major blues setting."/"is predicated on a major third in the chord." are not the same thing.

In an Arabic maqam, you would see an augmented second in the row: G A# B etc.
But, this is about blues practice and it's a blues third.

Even in the Foxey Lady chord, it's all about both thirds, it's a blues thing, but it's just given an easy-to-digest chord name. As a dominant 7 function in jazz (which is a different contextual usage), it really is a sharp nine chord and there will be a type of voice leading implied.