Dongles and XILS synths (Split from Kriminal's demo trouble)

[standalone]

Any company should want to know what potential customers think about their business decisions

Probably they prefer to hear what all their potentional customers think once than to hear what the same three potential customers think a million times.

[Teksonik]

I'll post what I want here. My discussion is with the developer's decision to use Dongles......

Since your discussion doesn't concern Krim's problems with his demo, it was a derailment of that thread. Now you have a thread all your own and XILS' dongles are its topic.

Good morning Mommy.....I wondered when you would stick your nose in it.......I assume all other threads that veer off topic will be split as well?......you know because they've been "derailed"............

I've made my position crystal clear on the subject of Dongles and it really doesn't matter to me what others think.........go ahead and lock it.........you will eventually anyway.

[Meffy]

Good morning. I've already said both were legitimate topics for discussion. Separate topics.

If someone complains about other derailments, or if I happen to notice them, yes, I'll split those threads too.

[kx.001]

Any company should want to know what potential customers think about their business decisions

Probably they prefer to hear what all their potentional customers think once than to hear what the same three potential customers think a million times.

Also, I'm presuming that it's been considered in the business plan. you hold a view which is common to many, and with the developer active on this forum they'll understand that viewpoint. But presumably the dongles would only be used if they were efficient, so there won't be any 'subsidising' the people who aren't willing to pay.

[macmurphy]

I could care less if people allow themselves.....

No. You couldn't care less.

If you could care less then that implies you care a certain amount.

Which you apparently don't.

Carry on.

[Yatmandu]

Here's why I hate dongles: last night I tried to fire-up Xils-3 from Reaper 3.76 (which is my rapid-fire record, test DAW) and it just hung there. I don't know that it was because of the dongle or not. I then fired it up from Cubase 6, and it was fine, it opened w/o problems. I'm pretty sure the Reaper hang was due to some dongle/eLicenser problem. It has worked on Reaper before, so I'm not sure why it hung this time. Maybe I need to update the eLc s/w?

Anyway, put me down with the anti-dongle club. However, in spite of my hate for these things, it won't prevent me from picking up great synths like the Xils ones that are dongled - but I can understand why some wouldn't.

[Kriminal]

But presumably the dongles would only be used if they were efficient

they are not, you can pick up xils stuff on any torrent site, along with most dongled synths, so that argument is invalid.

[whyterabbyt]

Here's why I hate dongles: last night I tried to fire-up Xils-3 from Reaper 3.76 (which is my rapid-fire record, test DAW) and it just hung there. I don't know that it was because of the dongle or not. I then fired it up from Cubase 6, and it was fine, it opened w/o problems. I'm pretty sure the Reaper hang was due to some dongle/eLicenser problem. It has worked on Reaper before, so I'm not sure why it hung this time. Maybe I need to update the eLc s/w?

Pretty damning evidence, clearly. Downright... scientific in its rigor if you dont mind me saying so.

[Lunatic_Machinist]

count another one in the anti-dongle camp. actually I don't mind it ideologically, but they seem to be just plain inconvenient to use. one usb port down, and a small pile of software and drivers on yer pc, hell yeah.

but I have to say, that, in this day of internet, I think it's pretty safe to assume that if yer big enough, yer gonna get cracked, that includes all the major copy protection schemes. with this assumption in mind, it does seem reasonable for companies to go for the simplest possible copy-protection schemes (think madrona labs aalto), since the 'advanced' copy protection mechanisms don't work anyway, so the users get the most hassle-free experience possible. then they're gonna log on kvr and tell everybody about the wonderful and problem-free experience they're having. beautiful.

[Yatmandu]

Here's why I hate dongles: last night I tried to fire-up Xils-3 from Reaper 3.76 (which is my rapid-fire record, test DAW) and it just hung there. I don't know that it was because of the dongle or not. I then fired it up from Cubase 6, and it was fine, it opened w/o problems. I'm pretty sure the Reaper hang was due to some dongle/eLicenser problem. It has worked on Reaper before, so I'm not sure why it hung this time. Maybe I need to update the eLc s/w?

Pretty damning evidence, clearly. Downright... scientific in its rigor if you dont mind me saying so.

Dude, I do this for work for lots of dinero, but I'll be damned if I spend my free time debugging music software so spare me the tongue-in-cheek stuff...

[contrary]

It is a very difficult issue , and when you look at the many dev's like Uhe , Discovery DSp , who are seemingly doing just fine without making their customers pay and deal with the extra hassle's associated with hardware keys , it is a little confusing why other companies choose to go that route anyway .

I can only guess that after some very long works hours coding their babies , they just can't stand the thought of anyone stealing it , and , make a cost benefit analysis then decide that they just don't care if they scare potential customers away .....


If one feels like being an activist about it , then the plan of action is simple ; only support dev's who respect the customer who pays by NOT punishing that customer with onerous copy protection schemes like hardware keys ...

And if you want to be vocal about it on forums , then it's your time spent and you should be able to do so without threads getting locked ...

[kx.001]

And if you want to be vocal about it on forums , then it's your time spent and you should be able to do so without threads getting locked ...

it's a moderated forum, any conversation can be stopped for any reason

[Lotuzia]

But presumably the dongles would only be used if they were efficient

they are not, you can pick up xils stuff on any torrent site, along with most dongled synths, so that argument is invalid.

Your argument is false, because it doesnt mean that they work. And actually they just ........ dont , so the protection is effective.

And tbh I dont know if such hints based on your knowledge of torrent things can even be a valid argument on a forum like KVR

Those who are interested into Xils Synths can not only try dongleless demos, but also purchase some intruments wich are only protected by a serial, ie the Xils3 LE, and the PolyKB Player Edition.

I dont know if I have much else to say about a topic wich would involve dongle protection and .... only ... Xils-Lab.

Afaik, a lot of companies are using dongles, I have myself different dongles for plethora of synths, VST aso, and I do prefer them over C-R protection, because the only thing that wont work anymore in my studio are Gigastudio etc.

I think people who arent into dongles, for reasons that I perfectly understand, would have interest into building a big consolidated lobbying thread, wich could then become interesting eventually and noticeable for companies, rather than interfering in every thread regarding this or that synth or effect released by a company using dongles.

Imho it doesnt add anyhting to the information users deserve from these companies, or necessary feedback users send to the company, nor on the benefits and interactive people forum like Kvr is supposed to give to its users.

Thanks for reading,

LtZ

[Hink]

for me it's the greater cost of doing busines though busines is a poor choice of words for me because I'm not in the business of making music...it's my passion and I am never going to recoup what I have already spent. Do I wish I could do away with dongles? Hell yeah. Do I wish I could do away with C/R? Hell yeah but at least it doesn't physically cost me more. Am I going to lose sleep over this? Hell no.

I totally understand teksonik's point (but none of thei is directed at him specifically) that he does not want to spend money for software, then pay more to use it because you have to buy a piece of hardware. That's absurd to believe that it's fair to force such costs onto the consumer, you should buy your software and be able to use it forever with no additional costs unless it's for an upgrade...That makes perfect sense....or does it?

Like so many things it's relative and there are trade offs, if you skip back a couple of decades and wanted to have a home studio once you bought the machine, once you bought a board, once you bought a rack full of noise reduction, once you bought a rack full of dsp, fx, patchbays and a fortune in cables then you were ready to record your first song. Oh wait, there's one more thing you have to buy...tape...wow I have a great inspiration but I cant afford to record it right now or I have to erase something else.

Big studios wouldn't have this issue because that is part of what they charge to do business, but even once you stepped into the digital world of ADAT it wasn't long before you spent the amount of the cost of a dongle.

I'm not here to preach for or against dongles, if people want to stand on their principles I applaud them for having the fortitude to do so. I think the message is being sent to the companies because we have seen some companies drop the dongle...unfortunately some of those companies have gone with protection that aggravates another group of people (like IK with the custom shop and having to go online, the argument presented by those who dislike that is equally valid).

So in the end you have to make choices, sacrifices, course changes and sometimes go against your principles and ony you can decided when and if that is appropriate. For me (and for me only) I really like Samplitude, I have not found an all in one solution that works for me as well as Samplitude does. The dongle is a minor inconvience imo but I hear rumors (which are probably just that) that Magix might drop the dongle...if that happens I'll not bat an eyelash and take whatever steps I need to continue to be able to enjoy my passion to it's fullest...which may include accepting some things I hate or even worse giving up samp for something eles if issues persist that stop me dead in my tracks (none of which has happened yet).

I know I'm better off than 20 or even 10 years ago, I know there is far less work involved in maintaining a DAW as opposed to an expensive tape machine (be it digital or analog) and I know decisions will be made that I detest...all of which factors into the cost having what I want. I have now more than I ever dreamt possible at a fraction of the projected cost back in the day where I dreamt of building my dream studio. For me and me only 50 dollars for a dongle is a small price to pay for a dongle that opens the world for me like Samplitude does.

If my dongle breaks or gets lost will there be downtime? Yes. Will it cost me? Yes. Did analog studios have issues with gear failing? Yes. Did it cause them downtime? Yes. Did it cost the studio owner? Yes and probably far more than the cost of a dongle and certainly a longer downtime.

Bottom line is I just do not get the fighting and hate that these threads cause...live and let live, use a little empathy to see the other side of the coin but for crying out loud dont pay for it with you dignity or integrity too...that's not on the company at hand, that's on you.

When you get into an endeavor such as this you have to know going in that at some point you will be throwing good money after bad. Follow your heart and your beliefs and allow others to do the same, it may mean giving up something you want but then that's life. At the same time do not disrespect someone else for making the choices they make because ten years from now it's going to be something different that people are arguing about. It's all just part of the cost of doing business..and in this case and from my viewpoint this is one time the cost of having what I want has dropped significantly over 30 plus years (relatively speaking of course) so I am going to roll with the punches.

being realistic.
1. I am going to have downtime
2. I am going to spend a lot more over the years
3. I am going to have to make the choices I feel serve me best
4. I'm not going to offend or be offended by anyone on my choices or their's
5. There are going to be issues that I do not expect that will cost me (like last week with my psu going)
6. I'm going to stay at it as long as this man is physically capable

The other choice is throw in the towel and not enjoy my passion which is not an option, though I might need to make more sacrifices in the future. But at the same time I might find myself gaining benefits I never thought I would have which is the one theme that has remained constant since I first started out on this path when gas was still 35 cents a gallon.

YMMV, YMSV, YMWV MMIWC

(your mileage may vary, should vary and will vary, but my mileage is what counts...for me only of course)

[Kriminal]

But presumably the dongles would only be used if they were efficient

they are not, you can pick up xils stuff on any torrent site, along with most dongled synths, so that argument is invalid.

Your argument is false, because it doesnt mean that they work. And actually they just ........ dont , so the protection is effective.

that reply makes no sense at all, please re-read it and post again what you actually meant to say, cos you agreed with me and contradicted yourself at the same time

And tbh I dont know if such hints based on your knowledge of torrent things can even be a valid argument on a forum like KVR

its quite easy to back up, just have a look on google....so the argument is totally valid, as the evidence is right there (obviously i cant post links to such evidence as it breaks forums rules, but im sure you are clever enough to be able to do a search in google)