Dongles and XILS synths (Split from Kriminal's demo trouble)

[lagavulin16]

why, does he work for xils? does he use dongles?

no and no, so i fail to see the point of dragging urs into it

Now you're just being obnoxious.

1) He's a developer who sells plugins.
2) He has chosen not to use dongles.

If a software company stated that anyone purchasing the software had to be sodomized by the developer, and someone here called the policy absurd because another developer didn't have such a policy, would you say that they have no right to call the policy into question because they don't personally sodomize people or work for the same company?

So this is just to react to the usual " everything is crackab--le" blablabla that we hear each time, from people who usually have no clues about protection, or had some in ancient times and think that their knowledge might never die over years.

Can you list 3 products, dongle or otherwise, which have never been cracked out of the thousands of audio software releases in the past 2-3 decades?

[Lotuzia]

why, does he work for xils? does he use dongles?

no and no, so i fail to see the point of dragging urs into it

Now you're just being obnoxious.

1) He's a developer who sells plugins.
2) He has chosen not to use dongles.

If a software company stated that anyone purchasing the software had to be sodomized by the developer, and someone here called the policy absurd because another developer didn't have such a policy, would you say that they have no right to call the policy into question because they don't personally sodomize people or work for the same company?

So this is just to react to the usual " everything is crackab--le" blablabla that we hear each time, from people who usually have no clues about protection, or had some in ancient times and think that their knowledge might never die over years.

Can you list 3 products, dongle or otherwise, which have never been cracked out of the thousands of audio software releases in the past 2-3 decades?

You didnt read me thoroughly.

Its not about products beeing cr..cked, its about cr.cks working properly.

Some cr.cked software will malfunction and burn the wings of those who use them. For good reasons.

I know more than three programs in this case, but I'll let people discover their names by themselves, should they decide to go the "dark way".

People tend to think p.rates are -at least- clever guys with a kind of maestria to rev. eng. programs. Nothing is more far from reality. Most of them use very standard tools and apply 5mn standard process of wich they barely understand the basis.

LtZ

[whyterabbyt]

Can you list 3 products, dongle or otherwise, which have never been cracked out of the thousands of audio software releases in the past 2-3 decades?

so you've got an encyclopedic knowledge of what's available in pirated versions? interesting.

[lagavulin16]

Can you list 3 products, dongle or otherwise, which have never been cracked out of the thousands of audio software releases in the past 2-3 decades?

so you've got an encyclopedic knowledge of what's available in pirated versions? interesting.

Oh, no, not some wank at KVR accusing me of being a pirate simply because I have an informed mind and am not afraid to show it!

It should be noted that you weren't able to provide 3 pieces of software that haven't been cracked... which only stands to prove how pointless it is to bicker about dongles versus C/R versus serials when they all get cracked eventually.

This is by no means a complete list of the software I own (I've gotten lazy and haven't updated it in a while) but I'd be more than happy to validate my ownership of the below products with any of the vendors listed below. I haven't pirated software in a very, very long time and have been 100% legit for at least a decade:

Admiral Quality Poly-Ana
Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Premium
Adobe Creative Suite 5 Master Collection
Adobe Acrobat Pro 9
Adobe Color Finesse CS5
Alcohol Software Alcohol 120%
Apple Logic Pro Studio 9
audiomidi.com Breverb
audiomidi.com AAS Ultra Analog
audiomidi.com AAS Ultra Analog
Blizzard Starcraft II
Blue Cat BlueCatFreewarePack
Camel Audio Alchemy
Camel Audio CamelSpace
Camel Audio CamelPhat
ddmf.eu NY Compressor
ddmf.eu IIEQ Pro
ddmf.eu Linear Phase 10
ddmf.eu Colour EQ
ddmf.eu StereooeretS
esoundz Ocean Way Drums Group Buy
Fabfilter Simplon
Fabfilter One
Fabfilter Pro-C
Fabfilter Timeless2, Twin2, Volcano2
Fabfilter Pro-Q
Fabfilter Micro
FXpansion DCAM Synth Squad
FXpansion BFD
FXpansion BFD XFL
FXpansion BFD 8 bit kit
FXpansion GURU
IK Multimedia AmpliTube Jimi Hendrix
IK Multimedia T-RackS 3 Deluxe
IK Multimedia AmpliTube 2
IK Multimedia Ampeg SVX
IK Multimedia AmpliTube Fender
IK Multimedia AmpliTube X-GEAR
IK Multimedia Classik Studio Reverb
Image Line Harmless
Loomer String
lowcoders.fr Kingdubby
Microsoft Office Pro 2007
Microsoft Office Mac 2008
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate
Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition
Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate Edition
Native Instruments Komplete 5
Native Instruments Reaktor Spark
Native Instruments Komplete 6
Native Instruments KORE Electronic Experience
Native Instruments KORE 2
Native Instruments Maschine
Nomad Factory Integral Studio Pack
obdev.at Little Snitch
Presonus Studio One Artist
Presonus Studio One Pro
Propellerheads Reason 2.5
Propellerheads Reason 4.0 Upgrade
Propellerheads Record
PSP Audioware PSP Nitro
PSP Audioware PSP sQuad
PSP Audioware Lexicon PSP42
PSP Audioware PSP 608MD
PSP Audioware PSP 84
PSP Audioware PSP MasterQ
PSP Audioware PSP MixPack
PSP Audioware PSP oldTimer
PSP Audioware PSP StereoPack
PSP Audioware PSP VintageWarmer
PSP Audioware N2O
Recabi.net Impulse Responses
Sonic Charge Synplant
Togu Audio Line Various
u-he.com ACE
u-he.com Uhbik
u-he.com Zebra
u-he.com MFM2
u-he.com Filterscape
VMWare VMWare Fusion 2
Voxengo Elephant
Xils-Lab XILS3

Now why don't you go play in traffic and stop trying to c-block intelligent discussions here with your hyperbolic vitriol.

[whyterabbyt]

I have an informed mind and am not afraid to show it!

when was that, then? certainly not in this thread; informed minds use logic, not bullshit. your arguments so far fall under the latter category. to wit:

It should be noted that you weren't able to provide 3 pieces of software that haven't been cracked...

Someone with 'an informed mind' would have been able to draw a few logical conclusions from that

1) That there's the possibility I dont have an encyclopedic knowledge of exactly which software has and hasnt been pirated. Even if you, interestingly, do.
2) That there's the possibility I chose not to address your pointless 'challenge' in the first place
3) That there's the certainty that any given individual's knowledge of what is and isnt pirated has no relevance whatsoever to the discussion at all, nor does it constitute any kind of proof of anything germaine to the discussion.
4) That there's the probability some self-proclaimed 'informed minds' don't understand enough to not rely on logical fallacies

which only stands to prove how pointless it is to bicker about dongles versus C/R versus serials when they all get cracked eventually.

See what I mean about the logical fallacy?

This is by no means a complete list of the software I own

By your own logic, you havent included a list of all the software you've not pirated, so you must be a pirate.

see how that works. Not very 'informed' at all.

Now why don't you go play in traffic and stop trying to c-block intelligent discussions here with your hyperbolic vitriol.

Well, you certainly didnt bring 'intelligent discussion' to the table with that argument.

I also think you should maybe check the dictionary definitions for 'hyperbole' and 'vitriol', you seem to be somewhat short of a clue there.

[fandango]

I'm glad someone mentioned the "could care less" thing. That drives me nuts.

<derailment>

I also don't like dongles.

<re-railed>

[lagavulin16]

I have an informed mind and am not afraid to show it!

when was that, then? certainly not in this thread; informed minds use logic, not bullshit. your arguments so far fall under the latter category. to wit:

When I pointed out that whether copy protection employs a simple serial, a PITA dongle, or a gun to one's head, the end result is always the same: it gets cracked.

Someone with 'an informed mind' would have been able to draw a few logical conclusions from that

1) That there's the possibility I dont have an encyclopedic knowledge of exactly which software has and hasnt been pirated. Even if you, interestingly, do.

Your initial post already revealed that you have a pedantic knowledge of logical fallacies. Why else would you imply that the fact that I'm aware that every piece of music software has been cracked to be "interesting", and therefor that I myself am a pirate? If that wasn't what you found "interesting" please clarify your statement, I'd hate to think I misunderstood your inference.

2) That there's the possibility I chose not to address your pointless 'challenge' in the first place

As you've revealed yourself to be a crashing bore in a record number of minimal posts, I'd say that possibility is quite likely.

3) That there's the certainty that any given individual's knowledge of what is and isnt pirated has no relevance whatsoever to the discussion at all, nor does it constitute any kind of proof of anything germaine to the discussion.

I think that if 99.9% of all music software has been successfully pirated regardless of the copy protection mechanism employed, we can safely assume that this argument is about as worthwhile as deciding which bullet is least likely to kill when fired into the brain. The point is quite germane, as it shows that all copy protection schemes are probably equal in terms of their ability to stop piracy. Where they aren't equal is the cost in terms of time and money to the publishers and consumers.

4) That there's the probability some self-proclaimed 'informed minds' don't understand enough to not rely on logical fallacies

Please see my response to point #1.

which only stands to prove how pointless it is to bicker about dongles versus C/R versus serials when they all get cracked eventually.

See what I mean about the logical fallacy?

Yes, but keep saying it and you'll make it true eventually.

This is by no means a complete list of the software I own

By your own logic, you havent included a list of all the software you've not pirated, so you must be a pirate.

You'd have to scan my computer to verify that, which I'm open to. I haven't had any pirated software in a very long time.

Now why don't you go play in traffic and stop trying to c-block intelligent discussions here with your hyperbolic vitriol.

Well, you certainly didnt bring 'intelligent discussion' to the table with that argument.

I also think you should maybe check the dictionary definitions for 'hyperbole' and 'vitriol', you seem to be somewhat short of a clue there.

[/quote]

You should know by now (assuming you're ever invited outside of your basement) that you can only corner someone (be it at a dinner party or online conversation) with a tiresome debate for so long before they give you a not so subtle reminder to leave.

[whyterabbyt]

When I pointed out that whether copy protection employs a simple serial, a PITA dongle, or a gun to one's head, the end result is always the same: it gets cracked.

Gun to the head, eh? No bullshit there, eh?

Im curious what you think the existence of 'cracked' versions of non-protected software would imply? By your logic, shouldnt it imply that not protecting software was pointless?

An informed mind might want to consider that in some cases the purpose of copy protection is slightly different, and perhaps more pragmatic, than entirely thwarting pirated copies forever and ever.

Your initial post already revealed that you have a pedantic knowledge of logical fallacies. Why else would you imply that the fact that I'm aware that every piece of music software has been cracked to be "interesting", and therefor that I myself am a pirate?

Why 'else' to what? You're asserting that I asked because I know fallacious argument when I see it? That's a bit of a silly reason to ascribe, really.
BTW Your other assertion, that I was implying something about your status as a pirate, is logically flawed too. Your 'you cant show me 3 examples that havent been cracked' is based on a logical fallacy. Only someone with an exhaustively encyclopedic knowledge of all products and all cracks, ever, would be able to do so. Highlighting the impossibility of you having such knowledge was highlighting the fallacy you were leveraging.

If that wasn't what you found "interesting" please clarify your statement, I'd hate to think I misunderstood your inference.

To be honest, I dont quite believe you. Im sure you'd love to be able to misunderstand it.

As you've revealed yourself to be a crashing bore in a record number of minimal posts, I'd say that possibility is quite likely.

Ah, right. People who dont memorise what software is pirated are 'crashing bores'.

Say, you're not trying to hint that you are a pirate after all? Because that's getting slightly confusing.

I think that if 99.9% of all music software has been successfully pirated regardless of the copy protection mechanism employed, we can safely assume that this argument is about as worthwhile as deciding which bullet is least likely to kill when fired into the brain.

'if'.

The point is quite germane, as it shows that all copy protection schemes are probably equal in terms of their ability to stop piracy. Where they aren't equal is the cost in terms of time and money to the publishers and consumers.

you keep assuming that the purpose of copy protection is solely the prevention of piracy.

Please see my response to point #1.

why? it didnt answer it.

Yes, but keep saying it and you'll make it true eventually.

I can see from the pattern of your posts that you believe that strongly.

You should know by now (assuming you're ever invited outside of your basement) that you can only corner someone (be it at a dinner party or online conversation) with a tiresome debate for so long before they give you a not so subtle reminder to leave.

I get the sense that you know that far better than I.

[Teksonik]

I'm glad someone mentioned the "could care less" thing. That drives me nuts.

Almost as much as the Grammar Police who wait to pounce on every Typo..........

I also don't like dongles.

Then we can at least agree on one thing............

[Bronto Scorpio]

informed minds use logic, not bullshit.

Quote of the day
I want a big poster of that quote in my "studio"

Cheers
Dennis

[Teksonik]

Well, some software do come with a dongle included -- Cubase, for example.

So, on the principle of not paying extra for a dongle, it doesn't apply in this case, no? Think of it as a free dongle, I think.

No it doesn't apply in that case. Can you use the Cubase Dongle to hold other company's licenses?

[Bronto Scorpio]

Can you use the Cubase Dongle to hold other company's licenses?

Yes. It's a standard E-Licenser (I think) you can use it like every other E-Licenser.

Cheers
Dennis

[Lotuzia]

Can you use the Cubase Dongle to hold other company's licenses?

Yes. It's a standard E-Licenser (I think) you can use it like every other E-Licenser.

Cheers
Dennis

Besides of Cubase licences, My Elicencer has around 20 additonal licences for various Synths, Effects aso/

Ex Syncrosoft, now Elicencer, Cubase dongle belongs to one of the two generic main families of physical protection, the second beeing Ilok.

Ilok I can carry around 200 licences on it. Ilok II has 500.

This said on Ilok when you demo one product, even if you dont purchase it afterwards, you cant remove the licence (iirc).

LtZ

[trimph1]

Can you use the Cubase Dongle to hold other company's licenses?

Yes. It's a standard E-Licenser (I think) you can use it like every other E-Licenser.

Cheers
Dennis

Besides of Cubase licences, My Elicencer has around 20 additonal licences for various Synths, Effects aso/

Ex Syncrosoft, now Elicencer, Cubase dongle belongs to one of the two generic main families of physical protection, the second beeing Ilok.

Ilok I can carry around 200 licences on it. Ilok II has 500.

This said on Ilok when you demo one product, even if you dont purchase it afterwards, you cant remove the licence (iirc).

LtZ

That is what i like about iLok II...the amount of licenses that thing can hold is almost limitless...

[munchkin]

I prefer to take a critical realist approach where if there exists one example of dongled software that has been cracked then it must be true that as a deterrent dongles are ineffective. Unlike the logical positivist argument, that doesn't mean all dongled software has been cracked just that the propensity for it to be cracked is real.

Once that's been established we can then research why developers use particular types of CP. For example, what are the economic, social and psychological incentives for using dongled protection knowing that it's fallible? People don't always make logical choices and invariably choice is made based on available information that suits an ideological outlook whether that's accurate or not.