Dongles and XILS synths (Split from Kriminal's demo trouble)

[Gamma-UT]

I prefer to take a critical realist approach where if there exists one example of dongled software that has been cracked then it must be true that as a deterrent dongles are ineffective. Unlike the logical positivist argument, that doesn't mean all dongled software has been cracked just that the propensity for it to be cracked is real.

Your logic doesn't hold. The use of a dongle/serial/key-file is not the only variable in copy protection. If the key is only accessed at one point during execution, it is likely to be trivial to bypass. But that's not the only method open to developers: there can be multiple layers of protection used within the software, each of which reduces the probability of being cracked before an update is published.

[Kriminal]

why, does he work for xils? does he use dongles?

no and no, so i fail to see the point of dragging urs into it

Now you're just being obnoxious.

1) He's a developer who sells plugins.
2) He has chosen not to use dongles.

If a software company stated that anyone purchasing the software had to be sodomized by the developer, and someone here called the policy absurd because another developer didn't have such a policy, would you say that they have no right to call the policy into question because they don't personally sodomize people or work for the same company?

i assume you didnt mean to quote me, or you didnt understand what i wrote.

im well aware who urs is, ive been on his beta team for 6 years now

[contrary]

Another drawback to hardware keys ( In my experience) is as follows ;

My daw never sees an rj-45 connector and has no anti virus . I optimized XP service pack 2 after install and killed lots of tsr's that were related to networking . It's an old conroe dual core , but it is still just as quick ( if not quicker) than the newer family quad core that has anti virus , and every thing that every GD coder of programs thought should be loading at start up ( with the exception of quick time!)

When syncrosoft got bought out , they changed the SDK and updated the licenser software , and then made SERVICE PACK 3 a requirement for XP installations !!! . Then a synth I had already licensed and on a syncrosoft key got updated by the developer ( luckily it was a Rob Papen product !!) and the latest version of the license center ( an it's mandatory service pack 3 requirement !) was demanded for me to enjoy the latest iteration of this synth and the improvements therein ..................


So now , I'm supposed to take a perfectly stable , off -line DAW and risk slowing in down or mucking it up during the service pack 3 upgrade ( which has to contain massive amounts of networking patches .... for a computer that never See's the net ??)


I was lucky that I never had to make the decision because the Papen team decide to ditch syncrosoft altogether!!!


My DAW is still humming along ( working perfectly folks), and I'll never be able to buy another newer developed syncro soft protected software unless I'm willing to take a big risk on updating the OS !!!!!

[Hink]

Another drawback to hardware keys ( In my experience) is as follows ;

My daw never sees an rj-45 connector and has no anti virus . I optimized XP service pack 2 after install and killed lots of tsr's that were related to networking . It's an old conroe dual core , but it is still just as quick ( if not quicker) than the newer family quad core that has anti virus , and every thing that every GD coder of programs thought should be loading at start up ( with the exception of quick time!)

When syncrosoft got bought out , they changed the SDK and updated the licenser software , and then made SERVICE PACK 3 a requirement for XP installations !!! . Then a synth I had already licensed and on a syncrosoft key got updated by the developer ( luckily it was a Rob Papen product !!) and the latest version of the license center ( an it's mandatory service pack 3 requirement !) was demanded for me to enjoy the latest iteration of this synth and the improvements therein ..................


So now , I'm supposed to take a perfectly stable , off -line DAW and risk slowing in down or mucking it up during the service pack 3 upgrade ( which has to contain massive amounts of networking patches .... for a computer that never See's the net ??)


I was lucky that I never had to make the decision because the Papen team decide to ditch syncrosoft altogether!!!


My DAW is still humming along ( working perfectly folks), and I'll never be able to buy another newer developed syncro soft protected software unless I'm willing to take a big risk on updating the OP !!!!!

I can relate 100% on the offline stuff but after SP3 was released (but before I updated) I had issues with my machine and my choices were connecting to the internet and allowing the builders (PCAudio labs) to go in remotely or pack up this monster and ship it 3,000 miles across the country.

After I was done with PCAL I decided to go ahead and risk the update to SP3 while I was online (going online means enabling firewalls, enabling ethernet ports , updating anti-virus software and then doing whatever I have to do online, run a complete scan, disconnect from the internet, deactivate ethernet port, deactivate firewalls and ati-virus software. So in other words if I'm online already it's prudent to do anything eles I might have to do online at that time as well. (it also means running an ethernet cable across, around, over and under things to get to the machine)

The good news is I had no issues at all with sp3 and besides a 5 year old psu going last week and apparently taking the video card with it my machine has been running flawless.

Of course now I am pondering windows 7 because I do have it on my laptop and like it, if that were to be the case it would be installed on a new HD. However I am also pondering building or buying a new machine next winter and then keeping this one as a back-up.

[highkoo]

Wow!
You lot of infantile bastards...

Dongles!
One of the few topics left that can still turn reasonable, intelligent forum members into wikipedia-linking, psych-study-quoting, grammar-nazi, master-debaters..

I guess its cuz its really where the 'warez meet the road' these days.
KVR really needs to stop implying that anyone who mentions warez is a pirate. I hope some of us are more grown up than that.
To whoever it was who was bullied into listing his paid licenses; you should edit that post and change it to just say "f**k you."


I like violins..


Oh, Oh- OT...
I have yet to pay for any dongled stuffs. Ive only occasionaly used any. I have no strong feelings one way or the other. I spose, the first 'gotta have it' that I can afford, that has a dongle will force that decision out of me. So far, I have no reason to hate them.

I think that philosphically, I am against them for the same reasons some are; it is an obstacle put in the way of the customer that is necessary because the vendor cannot sufficiently protect the necessary income-generating scenario.

[Compyfox]

Strange - XP pro 32bit SP3, RJ45 slots activated, no Firewall, no AntiVirus (except for te4 ocasional ESET once in a while), streamlined Windows, latest Syncrosoft and iLok drivers, latest host updates, Native Instruments Service Center, a CD drive emulator, RME drivers (HDSPe) and M-Audio drivers (MIDIsport 4x4), ...


And you know what?

My Core i7 is fast as hell and I encountered no issues whatsoever what you folks are talking about. Even on a moderate OS HDD where all my hosts and VST/VSTi are installed on.

[kylie]

Strange - XP pro 32bit SP3, RJ45 slots activated, no Firewall, no AntiVirus (except for te4 ocasional ESET once in a while), streamlined Windows, latest Syncrosoft and iLok drivers, latest host updates, Native Instruments Service Center, a CD drive emulator, RME drivers (HDSPe) and M-Audio drivers (MIDIsport 4x4), ...

do you want to tell us you don't have any codemeter drivers on your system? doh!

[Compyfox]

Since I don't use Reason (unless the once bundled with PT 7.4, which didn't use the Codemeter USB key yet), I don't think I have codemeter drivers installed - so... nope.

[kylie]

you're not complete, then...

[BlackOp]

When syncrosoft got bought out , they changed the SDK and updated the licenser software , and then made SERVICE PACK 3 a requirement for XP installations !!!

There's a registry key you can tweak so it appears you have SP3 installed. I had to do it on a machine SP3 wouldn't install on and it worked out fine.

[munchkin]

I prefer to take a critical realist approach where if there exists one example of dongled software that has been cracked then it must be true that as a deterrent dongles are ineffective. Unlike the logical positivist argument, that doesn't mean all dongled software has been cracked just that the propensity for it to be cracked is real.

Your logic doesn't hold. The use of a dongle/serial/key-file is not the only variable in copy protection. If the key is only accessed at one point during execution, it is likely to be trivial to bypass. But that's not the only method open to developers: there can be multiple layers of protection used within the software, each of which reduces the probability of being cracked before an update is published.

As I said, if one dongled plugin has been cracked then that copy protection is no longer infallible. We don't need logic to deduce that this is true. Just as I don't need logic to determine that having a conversation with someone is evidence of reality. We only need one example of a physical event to confirm its reality and potential to occur again.

[Compyfox]

you're not complete, then...

Why? I don't see a need for Reason (Codemeter), and the Codemeter stuff is not that much compared to the other solutions.

Still, even if I had it, I don't think that I'd run into the toubles that are the "evil dark cloud" here on KVR.

[jancivil]

I prefer to take a critical realist approach where if there exists one example of dongled software that has been cracked then it must be true that as a deterrent dongles are ineffective.

I don't know about cracks except for Cubase. It's been cracked, I think every version through C5. The cracks don't work, which is shown often enough to me trying to help Cubase users. It seems to me you have to buy it, accept their protection, or it won't actually function properly. If you can demonstrate that it's been cracked and works perfectly, you have reality on your side. As it is, you have an opinion that you seek to justify with what appears to me to be false.

[xavier]

Hi objectman

I'd like to thank you for your post : when you are working all the day on something, you can't (or with some difficulties) imagine that some people are absolutely not aware of what is now obvious for you (even if, when you began to work with, it was also absolutely not obvious for you).
You pointed and reported that some part of the website are not very clear.
I read this with interest and will update these parts.

Here are some answers related to XILS-lab products using the USB hardware protection keys (I will now name it dongle for simplicity) :

Dongle : it is an hardware USB key used to protect software. There are two companies which provide this, mainly used in audio softwares.
Steinberg with eLicenser and PACE with iLok. These two companies are independent and their systems, unfortunately, are not compatible. Both are (now) very stable and usable from systems using windows XP and later or Osx 10.4 and later. Both are their advantage and inconvenient (I won't discus this there).
Some years ago, eLicenser was provided under an other name "Syncrosoft" (but this is the same protection key ). Some years ago a "soft-eLicenser" was provided, this mean the same protection without the dongle.
Unfortunately, Steinberg doesn't provide it any more fro new products.


XILS-lab provides eLicenser USB key at the cost price, free shipping. The purchase is independent of the purchase of the synthesizer.

When you purchase an XILS-lab product, you will get a code which is sent by email. Installers and manual are freely downloadable (that the main advantage of dongle protection IMO : need to reinstall your system, to install it on a new computer, just go to the download web page, click the link, install, that's all, no need to login, to remember the pass, etc ...).

This codes are used to download a license into your dongle (using the eLicenser License center for eLicenser, or using the "redeem ilok code" link within the ilok.com server).
Once your license is downloaded into your dongle, you can run your software.
This hold all the right of your purchase and then, can be resold if needed (XILS-lab doesn't ask any fee, but it is up to you to manage the transfer to the new user, either through the iLok.com server, either by shipping a eLicenser holding the license)

XILS-lab products are not boxed.

You need the dongle to run the XILS-la products.
This is a problem for those who purchase a dongle, they need to wait (or still using the dongle free demo)

About shipping address used during the purchase, I agree it is redundant with the billing address.
There are still a lot of improvement for the website (browsing, purchase, registering, and so on). The world wasn't done in a day, and until now, we mainly focused on the synthesizers and the DSP, keeping relations ship and support for customers as good, as fast as possible.

So thanks to you post, we will add more explanation during the purchase, trying to reduce the time you could spend on it.

Best regards
Xavier

[Kriminal]

Dongle : it is an hardware USB key used to protect software.

here is a teapot made from chocolate