KVR Audio

Richard_Synapse · Post by **Richard_Synapse** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:46 pm

The traditional notation may have survived for long but it's not optimal in my mind, especially the bass clef seems rather unintuitive to me. I was never able to read it in "realtime", I always end up transposing it to treble clef first. Surely lack of practice, but there must be a better way to read notes.

In any case music theory can be learned in any arbitrary visualization, and perhaps the best way has not been discovered yet.

Richard

chj · Post by **chj** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:08 pm

Didn't read the entire thread. Just saw a few of the expected snobbish remarks. You don't have to see it in notation form to recognize the intervals. If you write music on a piano roll, you will recognize the same intervals, just like a pianist would when playing. A music theory book based on a piano roll makes perfect sense to me. Whoever does it well will probably have a successful book with the new generation of computer composers. I know how to read sheet music and took several theory classes. I just try not to be an old fart.

Ogg Vorbis · Post by **Ogg Vorbis** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:19 pm

chj wrote:If you write music on a piano roll, you will recognize the same intervals, just like a pianist would when playing.

I can't agree there. The piano roll displays I've seen would not tell you the difference between an augmented fourth and a diminished fifth.

Jbravo · Post by **Jbravo** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:36 pm

I'd love to see someone sight-read a piano-roll

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:50 pm

Jbravo wrote:I'd love to see someone sight-read a piano-roll

It's probably no harder than reading a conventional score. I assume it would just take practice as I can't think of anything that would make it impossible as long as you could see the entire piano roll.

Jbravo · Post by **Jbravo** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:53 pm

robojam wrote:
Jbravo wrote:I'd love to see someone sight-read a piano-roll
It's probably no harder than reading a conventional score. I assume it would just take practice as I can't think of anything that would make it impossible as long as you could see the entire piano roll.

hmmm I doubt that, especially if there are trills, accidentals, changes in time signature etc. You would have to be some kind of automaton, which is probably why piano rolls were invented for machines to use, not people.

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:56 pm

Jbravo wrote:
robojam wrote:
Jbravo wrote:I'd love to see someone sight-read a piano-roll
It's probably no harder than reading a conventional score. I assume it would just take practice as I can't think of anything that would make it impossible as long as you could see the entire piano roll.
hmmm I doubt that, especially if there are trills, accidentals, changes in time signature etc. You would have to be some kind of automaton, which is probably why piano rolls were invented for machines to use, not people.

Modern DAWs are designed for live performance, so I'd be surprised if someone couldn't take advantage of that and read changes in time signature. Trills and accidentals are easy - they're on the piano roll so you just have to read them.

A few years back this might not have been possible but I'd be really surprised if it was that difficult now.

Jbravo · Post by **Jbravo** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:59 pm

well maybe if you're playing one line, but accurately reading a melody line, while playing chords and getting exact intervals and timing right? Maybe one of those autistic geniuses could do it, but no ordinary human being

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:08 pm

I beg to differ. I don't really see why it's possible with a conventional score but not with a piano roll in a modern DAW.

Jbravo · Post by **Jbravo** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:11 pm

because a conventional score has all the signs and symbols that give you the information you need, in a quick and easy format. It would be much quicker just to learn to read a score than spend decades trying to read a piano roll in realtime

jones-y · Post by **jones-y** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:14 pm

Havent' read the whole thread, and don't really care about the philosophical aspects of the discussion, but perhaps this would be of interest to the OP:

http://www.amazon.com/Music-Theory-Comp ... 1598635034

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:19 pm

Jbravo wrote:because a conventional score has all the signs and symbols that give you the information you need, in a quick and easy format. It would be much quicker just to learn to read a score than spend decades trying to read a piano roll in realtime

A DAW can have the same, but just spread around a little.

Probably would be quicker to learn to play from a score, but I think you're grossly exaggerating by suggesting that it would take decades to learn.

I don't know why you're so adamant it's not possible.

PlasticSoul · Post by **PlasticSoul** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:57 pm

Six pages and nobody answered...

Here, skot-e, you need this:

Harmony for Computer Musicians,Michael Hewitt
http://www.amazon.com/Harmony-Computer- ... 1435456726

Use the click inside option to read some pages...

Enjoy...

chj · Post by **chj** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:22 pm

Jbravo wrote:I'd love to see someone sight-read a piano-roll ... well maybe if you're playing one line, but accurately reading a melody line, while playing chords and getting exact intervals and timing right? Maybe one of those autistic geniuses could do it, but no ordinary human being

Who's sight reading? The original post wanted a music theory book to help him COMPOSE in the piano roll. He doesn't need a traditional score to tell him exact timing and intervals. Because he's not a studio musician playing someone else's music. He's the one making the music. The exact timing and intervals is what he enters ... IN THE PIANO ROLL.

deleted · Post by **deleted** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:28 pm

DELETED

Music Theory books based on Piano Rolls not Staffs?