SYN'X 2.5 Released - Xils-Lab - (Multitimbral Synthex - intro discount-)

[Ingonator]

Hi Ingo,

I will have a look with this preset.
There are no reason it can't manage multicore systems (the GUI thread is separate from the audio thread and are managed by the application)

You can reduce or increase the GUI refreshing rate : "option->display->GUI update: low"

Best regards
Xavier

Hello Xavier,

this is really strange. Also other presets from Simins commercial bank which use Unison could cause the same problem. My own presets, even when using 4 voices unison and 4 notes (means using all 16 voices) are not reaching such a high CPU use. BTW the GUI rate was already at "low".


Ingo

[Whitten]

Is version 0.95 the latest full (paid) version?

[xavier]

Is version 0.95 the latest full (paid) version?

yes, it is the latest available.

@Ingo : I'm currently testing the Synthix on Windows 7. More information soon.
(I hope !! )

Best regards
Xavier

[jonahs]

Just got done playing with the .94 demo. I was able to make a nice sound within minutes. Just prior to writing this I made a great sound that I really wanted to save as a preset and then it crashed my DAW.

If you even have the time to read this I hope you find it useful. I think it's a very good synth.

On the downside:
Working with multiple layers (which seems to be the best feature) was more painful than it needed to be. Switching left and right click would help. Put a toggle so that a single click selects a layer and turns it's editing on.

Not sure why you would often want to see a layer, but not edit it. Remembering to turn off and turn on a layer is a flow killer. MIDI and/or keyboard switching of layers, please. An option to reset one layer to default? Parameter locking per layer would be special.

Why are the layers hidden in the default patch?! The select all and select none are also "hidden".

The way the signal flows isn't obvious from the layout. I had to experiment to see that effects/arps are not per layer. I think you could incorporate the cool Xils logo to visually show the user's eye the correct way the signal flows. You know X marks the spot.

I think the "bend" area should be moved to the info/keyboard area because really, I never use those and you couldn't use the bend and the keyboard at the same time even if you wanted to. Then give LFO 1+2 a box and "chaox" + "rythm" a box. You might even be able to fit all 4 in that space at once, especially if you dumped the area that says "DEMO". Env 3 and 4 cutting each others name off looks cheap.

I think synth logos only really made sense on hardware(on the back) as advertising and no one will see this. 1) cpu use is high enough that I'll be sampling for live use. 2) I'm the only one that can see the screen.

The brushed metal is very old Apple. It needs less. If the gray area was "matte" I think it would look more "expensive". The gray behind the synthex logo does make it stand out, but it also makes it look insecure.

This is your best GUI.

I hate the sequencer:
The sequencer needs a lot of work. Really slow to operate. For a start, the edit buttons should be colored ie the "led" should not be red for the purple layer. I should be able to MIDI learn all the controls. When you select a voice (other than NC ) the edit mode for that layer should automatically turn on.

I dunno If you click on a note in the sequencer maybe it should start editing that layer? If you want to place notes on top of each other use the DISP buttons to turn them off?

There needs to be copy and select options and computer automagic like making the notes of one layer the inverse of another or going up or down in order(with velocity too!). This is the kinda mechanical stuff that can sound great, but is no fun to do with a mouse, and why should you have to?

ps. The sequencer needs to be a mod destination! Freq, gate, voice, and track on/off would all be great to control.

Confusion:
I wonder if your sequences could be converted to rhythms and vice versa? I don't fully understand the rhythms yet.

I'm not clear on why you would want to "exchange".

What does search mode do? I thought it would let you move layers between patches which would have been awesome... If you do add something like that have the GUI (and sound if possible) update on the fly so you can see/hear the new settings before accepting them.

I need to explore Upper, Lower and Guit modes more. I've gotten different arps per layer going which was awesome, but it doesn't feel easy. May if we could use the keyboard to map this out?

I'll look back in the thread, someday.

Small annoyances:

Let me click on the preset names not just the tiny arrows to bring up the presets.

AB mode is "broken". If you click on the A twice it switches to B and you are now editing B, but B isn't depressed. Pressing the B button should make the A button in the up state and vice versa. The Arrow button is actually a swap button (which is good), but it should point in both directions or just say swap/switch/flip, etc.

When you solo a layer depending on the mode you may have to hit quite a few keys to hear that sound.

Other:
Of the effects, the phaser was my favorite, the eq was good, but I wasn't inspired by it, the chorus was meh and the delay needs a digital mode, I think.

Unison mode was rather disappointing until I started hard panning voices manually. You might want to make a button that does this for users.

The filter has it's own character which I really appreciate, but I wasn't able to get a satisfying scream out of it thus far.

Overall, it's very cool! It sorta reminds me of a more feature rich DSI Evolver (which is saying a lot!) with a retro sound mod. The creative flow isn't quite there for me to feel too tempted by the group buy, but I hope I deeply regret that in a few months due to improvements.

[Lotuzia]

If you even have the time to read this I hope you find it useful. I think it's a very good synth.

Thanks for your appreciation of the Synthix. We try to gather as much feedback as possible to improve our synthisizers. So ... you've just been read

On the downside:
Working with multiple layers (which seems to be the best feature) was more painful than it needed to be. Switching left and right click would help. Put a toggle so that a single click selects a layer and turns it's editing on.

Not sure why you would often want to see a layer, but not edit it. Remembering to turn off and turn on a layer is a flow killer. MIDI and/or keyboard switching of layers, please. An option to reset one layer to default? Parameter locking per layer would be special.

Well its not by total random that we finaly have this layer's management for a 8 layers but one panel Synth. This took us a lot of time.

The one thing I'm currently thinking of is that the right click should always trigger a synced left click simultaneously ( Opposite of course should not be true )

The possibility of viewing a layer while editing another (or many others) different one is VERY helpfull. I used it for everey complex instrument I designed. Sometimes you just loose the focus while working on a patch on 'wich layer does what" or "how it does it' So it can be usefull if you use unsynced LFOs for example, to match the rate of the editable Layer with values found on the other layers, but there are inded tons of possibilities. So this wont change. If people dont use it, then they just dont use it. YOu can See it as an additional possibility.

On Xils synths there's no such init state of a layer. We could define an init state and make an automatic search and replace( did anybody noticed that you can browse and load single layers from any library instruments to replaceone layer ) As this is a potential bug source and that we have to find a way to implement it on the GUI we just postponed this eventual feature, if you want a turnaround just load a layer from one of the INIT patches provided in the instrument you're working on, or better, define your own INIT and then load them.

We have some truly delicious AND MUSICAL ideas for the layer management but this will have to wait for further major updates.

Why are the layers hidden in the default patch?! The select all and select none are also "hidden".

This has been asked, and answered many times on the thread : Ie enough times that we know its a potential problem source. Initially its to provide a "simple panel edit mode" so that people can program the Synthix like an enhanced SYnthex : In this mode you always edit simultaneously all the layers. Of course this mode is not compatible with complex instruments, wich use different settings for different layers.(ie the complex multi panel mode )

I'll make some video tutorials on this subject in the following weeks. It should be much more easier for users to see the benefits of this dual architecture.

The way the signal flows isn't obvious from the layout. I had to experiment to see that effects/arps are not per layer. I think you could incorporate the cool Xils logo to visually show the user's eye the correct way the signal flows. You know X marks the spot.

I think the "bend" area should be moved to the info/keyboard area because really, I never use those and you couldn't use the bend and the keyboard at the same time even if you wanted to. Then give LFO 1+2 a box and "chaox" + "rythm" a box. You might even be able to fit all 4 in that space at once, especially if you dumped the area that says "DEMO". Env 3 and 4 cutting each others name off looks cheap.

All "panel" parameters are grouped in the upper rectangle" ( ie a layer panel" ), as all "global" parameters are grouped in the lower rectangle. Seems "almost" obvious to me but well ... The bend is an originalk feature of the Synthex. For Synthex owners this means its very handy for them to remake their Synthex patches, so we could not hide this feature. Just reminding here that the Bend Range is ( or can be) an essential part of the Keyboard playing techniques. Paul Wiffen told me he used this feature a lot while making sessions for Hans Zimmer, or on a track like Everythin but the girl "missing" for example. I also use this a lot. This IS the difficult thing when attempting to make a successfull MUSICAL instrument. Features ignored by some might be widely used by others.

"I think synth logos only really made sense on hardware(on the back) as advertising and no one will see this. 1) cpu use is high enough that I'll be sampling for live use. 2) I'm the only one that can see the screen.

The brushed metal is very old Apple. It needs less. If the gray area was "matte" I think it would look more "expensive". The gray behind the synthex logo does make it stand out, but it also makes it look insecure.

This is your best GUI."

Thanks for the best GUI

I hate the sequencer:
The sequencer needs a lot of work. Really slow to operate. For a start, the edit buttons should be colored ie the "led" should not be red for the purple layer. I should be able to MIDI learn all the controls. When you select a voice (other than NC ) the edit mode for that layer should automatically turn on.

I dunno If you click on a note in the sequencer maybe it should start editing that layer? If you want to place notes on top of each other use the DISP buttons to turn them off?

Sequencer is a feature. Dont forget that the pitch of the notes for example can be chosen as A MODULATION source in the matrix.

Syncing edition of a line and automatic selection of a the layer could be handy in some (even most ) cases. But I can see cases where it would be a total pain in the a.. as well, and in these situations you would then have no turnaround. (ie you're currently edit a layer according to a line you also want to edit, played by a different layer on the sequencer) So this is a false good idea imho.

There needs to be copy and select options and computer automagic like making the notes of one layer the inverse of another or going up or down in order(with velocity too!). This is the kinda mechanical stuff that can sound great, but is no fun to do with a mouse, and why should you have to?

ps. The sequencer needs to be a mod destination! Freq, gate, voice, and track on/off would all be great to control.

Confusion:
I wonder if your sequences could be converted to rhythms and vice versa? I don't fully understand the rhythms yet.

Sequencer is not perfect and will probably get some enhancements in the future. This is huge and hard work cos this uses a lot grahic routines wich are especially difficult to implement in multiplatform synths.

Imho The sequencer should be seen as an extraordinary musical way to build sequences that could not be done in any other synth. Yes the workflow could and will be enhanced. But if you think of the "old sequencer types" mania, what they do, the time needed to operate them, and what can do the Synthix sequencer ....... well just do your maths and see yoyr own balance between the expected musical benefits and the to be enhanced workflow. Just reminding here that the sequencer can also record in real time. So it can be VERY FAST to operate. this is the way i use it mainly, but I understand that all people wishing to edit their sequences want the best possible workflow

I'm not clear on why you would want to "exchange".

What does search mode do? I thought it would let you move layers between patches which would have been awesome... If you do add something like that have the GUI (and sound if possible) update on the fly so you can see/hear the new settings before accepting them.

I need to explore Upper, Lower and Guit modes more. I've gotten different arps per layer going which was awesome, but it doesn't feel easy. May if we could use the keyboard to map this out?

Exchange is a powerfull tool if you wanna change the global orientation of the instrument you're working on. ie going from a simple 8 voices double layer to a 5 voices triple layer.

Search mode does what youy say : Moving layers thru patches. It is impossible to have a preview, due to how Xils synths work. If you wanna make sure you dont make a mistake, save your patche before doing it, or use the A/B feature.

Using the GUI keyboard to input Split point is a good idea. As its not "only" a split point,but more lower and upper limits combined, the logic to input these split points is not so easy to figure out. Well we'll think about that.

When you solo a layer depending on the mode you may have to hit quite a few keys to hear that sound.

This is "very probably" related to the different play modes (polycircular etc) When you'll become more confident with using the play modes you'll see the reasons behind this ( wich is also one of the many reasons behind the ever'living and organic' sound of Xils-Synths )

Other:
Of the effects, the phaser was my favorite, the eq was good, but I wasn't inspired by it, the chorus was meh and the delay needs a digital mode, I think.

Unison mode was rather disappointing until I started hard panning voices manually. You might want to make a button that does this for users.

The filter has it's own character which I really appreciate, but I wasn't able to get a satisfying scream out of it thus far.

Some people only swear by the Chorus ( 3 of the 6 chorus modes are special Synthex ones ) etc. Well here again diversity of opinions is the law

Unisson : You can try the global Spray button too, it does a bit (and more) of what you want. Or per layer OSC1/2 Detune. There are a lot of parmaters wich interact with unisson of course, but these ones are probably the most important.

As for filters it might be hard to find selfocillating filters in all modes ( including HP and BP ) but well they are considered as a strong point of all Xils synths. They can scream, with their own character

Overall, it's very cool! It sorta reminds me of a more feature rich DSI Evolver (which is saying a lot!) with a retro sound mod. The creative flow isn't quite there for me to feel too tempted by the group buy, but I hope I deeply regret that in a few months due to improvements.

Thanks for the indepth review Jonahs, and all the ideas. The Synthix can be a very complex instrument, adn as such, people have to spend a few hours to get confortable with the most important aspects of the workflow, then probably some more to become Synthix Powere users.

Its the same with every powerfull instrument I've met sofar : You cant use and master Kontakt in ten minutes for example, other than just playing ready made instruments.

Some people spend a ot of time on scripting, and the scripting engine UI/Workflow could really be enhanced VS all programming languages UI we know.

But what does the Synthix, as kontakt, is unique, and regarding this I guess most people have to determine if they want/need this kind of uniqueness, or ........ less want it.

My main argument to judge the quality of a musical instrument has always, and will remain, the sound it produces, and the playing possibilities it offers. Workflow should of course not be totally erratic or chaotic, but I dont think this is the case on the Synthix

Now to each his own

And for those who might have survived reading all the above :

And Btw the Synthix GP period will end in FOUR DAYS

[Ingonator]

Wow, this must be one of the longest posts ever...


Ingo

[aMUSEd]

I just released a bank of 20 patches if anyone is interested:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 56#4590256

[Lotuzia]

Wow, this must be one of the longest posts ever...


Ingo

yes the origianla post was very long too, but it was adressing some interesting points

LtZ

[Lotuzia]

I just released a bank of 20 patches if anyone is interested:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 56#4590256

Thanks Stephen,

I'll check them asa I return to Paris ( I'm on holydays now )

I'm sure a lot of people will enjoy them !

L.

[metrosonic]

Just wanted to give my two cents on the interface.

I really do think it's the most elegant yet on a XILS synth. Maybe some colour coding is required to aid visual separation of the global and layer settings but considering the power and complexity of Synthix the tabbed approach makes a lot of sense to me.

On the downside I'm also no fan of the sequencer features of any XILS-Lab synth. They are held back by hardware sequencer metaphors, are a pain to program and are far too small to work with for extended periods. On the flip side, the modulation options offered by the sequencers are fantastic, it's just a pity the process of working with those features is akin to Nazi style tooth extraction!

Huge fan overall though.

JM
------------
http://soundcloud.com/leftside-wobble

[DF2R]

I've come to appreciate the locking layers - they save me from getting messed up when making complex patches and help me keep track of where I am.

Also I love the filters. I've been making lots of percussive stuff with just them and the Chaox, LFOs and Rhythm thingy.

[DubFox]

Any tips for loading these presets on OSX ?
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=323695


I tried importing the bank about 5 times now. Nothing happens. Tried restarting the plugin & the daw but to no avail.
I checked HD/library/audio/presets/Xils-lab & hd/library/application support/xils-lab

Neither of which seemed appropriate to place the file as I didn't see any other .esyx files there

So I'm all out of ideas

I'm using the latest build, 0.9.5

cheers

( really hoping this isn't a RTFM scenario )

[D N A]

Spreaded the word about group buy - hope it helps

[DubFox]

Any tips for loading these presets on OSX ?
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=323695

Issue resolved. He originally exported the bank with a previous build which had a preset bug of some kind.

cheers

[xavier]

Spreaded the word about group buy - hope it helps

Thanks !!

280 subscribers are there ! 3 days left, only 20 for the last step .... it can be done !

@DubFox : Thanks for the update.


Just sharing a new file, composed by Nick Smith, "slightly commercial" he said",
"All synth sounds from Synthix. Drums from Maschine & various loops. Some SFX were used." :

https://www.xils-lab.com/audiosample/Sy ... 1_2011.mp3

Thanks Nick !

Best regards
Xavier