Out of curiosity: Who uses traditional notation in their music

[Tony Ostinato]

it depends on what im doing.

i use notation (finale) a lot now, i used to chart by hand.

i use it mainly for a company of 2 bands i play in that play weddings and parties and coventions, they are booked solid and frequently we get requests for songs a day before the show.

i write for the horn section and that varies from 1 to 4 players and i often map the parts on my wx5/laptop setup so i can play the whole horn sections alone.

on the gig the horn sections read it down just fine. if its an easy chart i dont even do a seperate trombone part, hes good at transposing off tenorsax/trumpet charts.

charts are good at eliminating the need for a lot of rehersals and eliminating the need for a lot of memory.

along with those bands i play a variety of other bands, a stones tribute, a bowie tribute, a george harrison tribute, some funk bands , some blues jams etc.

the stones group offers a story about charts, theyve gone thru a lot of guitarists trying to find someone right but they keep trying their friends and pals instead of getting a pro (maybe someone that reads). i don't push any suggestions cause im just a horn player in that band and often i can't even make their gigs.

anyways i showed up at one rehersal, i usually dont even do rehersals but they said new guitarist needed the horns there so we went, and im settin up the stand and the charts and guitarist start to freak out "oh no we arent goin to be THAT kind of band are we??"

and hes like "you can't use charts onstage" and i reply "most all horn sections do, and i can show you photos of the stones horn sections and players using them, if you want i can even connect you with their current sax player to verify that. now if this gig gets to the point where its all im doin then sure we will have it all memorized no problem but this band is lucky to play once a month".

and he says "well i heard its impossible to chart out the stones music because the drummer changes up the beat almost every bar".

i just couldn't choose a reply for that.

i recorded the gig, he got some stuff right and a ton of stuff wrong but he didnt remember doing any of the wrong stuff. i shared the recording with the band and he got pissed and quit, and they moved on to the next guitarist who still couldnt read but was better and easier to get along with.

then i met up with him again in another band led by a friend of mine and sure enough at rehersal hes like "well we wont be able to do any of these new songs cuase he cant play anything unless he has a chart"

and i reply "but..i write the charts so how can i not be able to..." and my pal plays the line for me and i play it back without problem and hes just sittin there fuming. i say hey turn on the radio and twirl the dial and find something i cant play along with and we do that for awhile till he gives up.

and same exact deal, tons of errors he doesnt remember and i share the recording with the band. i even have this one on my soundcloud. he gets pissed and this time he demands the bandleader fire me and instead the bandleader fires him.

which is all quite silly in a band that plays maybe 7 times a year.

and its silly anyways. music has never been easier to chart. hardly anyone uses odd meters anymore. theres "hey yah" with its sporadic 6/4 bars and theres "home" by the magnetic zeros that has some 2/4 bars, which isnt weird at all if you just count the whole thing in 2.

i did a chart for myself for "here comes the sun" and that has some meter stuff. i didnt even think to do a web search and the guitarist showed up with a downloaded chart and we compared them. i had chosen different meters but the math all added up.

in the "sun , sun, sun" section his chart had a 2/4 bar and then 3 3/8 bars, a 5/8 bar and then 4/4 and repeat it all again

mine was a 7/8 bar (combining the 2/4 bar and the first 3/8 bar that sounds like pickups to me so i wanted it to look that way so that the first "sun" was at the top of a bar) then on the first "sun" an 11/8 bar and then the 4/4 bar both charts agreed on, and repeat.

it all went fine, i was covering all the moog stuff.

anyways its not THAT hard to learn to read and write and i think its a lot easier than going to a ton of rehersals and its way easier than trying to remember how songs go after 5 months of not playing them (especially horn parts which arent always as easy to remember as the melody etc, and if you got 5 horn players they are all gonna remember things in a different way and argue over who plays what harmonies etc).

theres also a factor where if you can't make the gig you can give copies of the charts to your subs and they can read it down and not need an extra rehersal, thus avoiding screwing over the band. there are those who enjoy screwing over bands, im not one.

now when im doing my own thing at home in nuendo i never chart stuff because the DAW kind of becomes the chart. the way you lay things out on a project window is very much like a written score and theres no arguing over notes because youre putting in one part at a time.

sometimes where i record on other peoples albums, doing horn sections here from mp3s theyve sent and then sending horn tracks back, ill have to go back and chart out the parts for their release party live show with a real horn section but thats easier then charting out from a stereo recording.

and finally i get a bit of work just charting out other peoples tunes for books and stuff, string sections etc. very misc.

anyways getting back to how its easy, music notation is a very logical language and is way easier to learn than like french or spanish or math. theres really nothing to be afraid of.

can you get by without it? suuure. there are people who get by in life without being to read anything, even street signs.

conversely theres guys who read and write faster than i do too. heck look at the letterman show band, or the tonight show.

[VicDiesel]

I go about half-and-half music that is meant to be published as score, fully electronic crap, and my native american flute new-agey crap. Only the first category is written out:

http://icking-music-archive.org/ByComposer/Eijkhout.php

You might find it interesting that some of my written-out composition, even ones with lots of polyphony

http://icking-music-archive.org/scores/ ... ersion.mp3

are first played, and then written out. Any violations of the laws of harmony that I didn't catch by ear are then corrected in the process of writing out the score.

Victor.

[nix808]

hmm,
I am just about to score a trumpet part for integrating with guitar and DAW.
First time scoring a part.
I need to do it coz trumpet is far less visual than guitar.
I can make a more intricate part by scoring, rather than trying to remember it on trumpet.
Cheers
edit- I will be going to cornet soon instead

[tapper mike]

Tablature is a perfectly fine way for stringed instrument players to learn music. And rather effective for writing most parts.

[izonin]

I've rarely seen jazz/funk/r'n'b/rock/blues musicians read from notation while on stage. Those who do don't get much love from the audience.

The (piano) roll is the perfect mathematical and geometrical representation of musical ideas. I find it more natural and logical than standard notation with its flats, sharps, double flats and double sharps.

[Timfonie]

It appears to me most people here who use traditional notation use it for traditional music or even classical styles.

Are there any purely electronic music composers using notation too?

I only use notation when I have a melody or rythm I'm afraid to forget so I have to write it down wherever I am (in case I'm not carrying a sound recorder). That applies both to purely electronic as to other styles (incl. more acoustic and classical oriented styles).

[softska]

Stuff in sequencer probably hardly ever get notated, but for arrangements involving more than 2 players: Always.

I'm lazy so I only notate the minimum, but not notating has never been an option with my own experience, least if I want people to rehearse rather than Q&A for hours.

Agree reading chart on stage sucks, but rehearsal without a score is tedious unless you meet everyone every day.

[jopy]

Are there any purely electronic music composers using notation too?

i notate chord voicings and use a staff view in cakewalk to arrange ambient and idm style music. my background in writing music is jazz, so a lot of what i write is like lead sheets and head arrangements; i never write out dynamics and things like this when using the sequencer, but to keep track of what i'm doing i use the staff view constantly.

[Jafo]

I like how nice traditional notation looks, but shorthand is so much faster; I just write quarter, eighth, whatever notes on a line and mark the pitches below.

[Muse-Med]

I'm sure that they're are composers that can compose a fugue of the top of their head. Unfortunately, I'm not one of them. I need to see as well as hear. So, I write out my compositions. However, in the past I've learned and continue to utilize a kind-of "short hand" method of musical notation when appropriate. For example, if I have two instruments playing the melody an octave apart I will write something like "flute col violin melody 8va" rather than write out the melody-flute part note for note (again). Also, if I have some kind of two or four measure ostinato (sp?) figure played over and over again, I'll use the repeat measures notation. BUT, if I am looking to add "different" and interesting counter-melodies or voice more "different" and intricate harmonic structures over several instruments, I find that writing down the notes provides me the best way to further develop my composition.

Oh. . . I also compose "off the top of my head" instead of "writing it down". I'm good at it, actually. At least to my ears, those compositions tend to be the least satisfying for me. They seem to begin to sound all the same. . .

[jancivil]

Oh. . . I also compose "off the top of my head" instead of "writing it down". I'm good at it, actually. At least to my ears, those compositions tend to be the least satisfying for me. They seem to begin to sound all the same. . .

but, you're good at it!

[Muse-Med]

jancivil -

I think I need to clarify my comment a bit. LOL! When I wrote that, I was thinking about my part-time job of 27+ years as keyboardist/choir director for this small, rural church that I go to. During the offering, I play stuff off the top of my head just to fill in time while the ushers collect the money. I've come up with some pretty interesting stuff in the past that I later developed into completed sequenced compositions. But, without a doubt, I tend to use similar chord progressions and melodic structures. Maybe I'm tired of hearing myself, but after 27+ years of doing this my little "off the cuff" improvisations seems to sound similar and uninspiring. I think my improvisations are boring! LOL!

I guess. . . being good at doing something and coming up with something good are two different things. LOL!

Cheers. . .

[Sascha Franck]

I think, for a guitar player I'm doing an OK-ish job reading standard notation - and maybe a slightly better job in reading chord symbols (as you find them in lots of lead sheets) plus some rhythmic notation. That's the things I need to make my living (playing musicals and such stuff).
For things I "compose" (rarely anyting these days, a little 11 months old boy can take up *quite* some time...), I usually don't use notation when editing and such, I feel a lot more comfortable with a piano roll, especially as editing note lengths is a lot easier.
But then, sometimes certain jobs are requiring some notational skills. ATM I'm involved in some theatre production and we (the band, that is) have to come up with some new "jingles" (originals or covered) just about in any show. For that kinda stuff, notating things is absolutely crucial because at the soundcheck (the only time we can try things out) there's defenitely no time to listen to whatever things, remember them and so on. So we need to bring our mini-sheets with us and just sight-read them (well, at least kinda).

Bottomline (and as has been said): Notation is pretty much a time saviour. It's really quite comparable with being able to read (standard lecture, that is). You can be the most brilliant musician on earth without being able to read or write a single note, but once it's about (the few rather rare) jobs, you better have at least some reading/writing skills.

- Sascha

[jancivil]

that I am able to completely eschew notation in the compositional process owes directly to the fact I was trained well in sight-singing. I hear it, I tend to know it.