Key of songs and Scales

[krisroberts]

What is the difference between the two?
How are they related?
When composing a piece of music how can you utilize the relationship?
Can you have a key change on the same scale?

Appreciate all and any help. i'm a musical noob who wants to focus more attention to muscial theory to increase my knowledge for better production/composing.

[C00kie]

The key says what the tonic is (root note) and might add it's major or minor.
The scale is a further detailed description of what notes will be played.

Have you read these?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_%28music%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_scale
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_mode

Can you have a key change on the same scale?

You can have a change of key without changing the scale. For instance A Minor and C Major: both scales consist of the very same notes.

Some sections of a piece can use different scales or keys, but that doesn't need to be specified explicitly.

[tapper mike]

Keys also have specific implications depending on the instrument. Certain tones resonate more on certain instruments, As well singers have keys that work well for them while others don't.
Those few and far between with perfect pitch(not me) often share similar feelings about particular keys. It's not a be all end all it's just a starting point.


As an example the romatic keys of the swing era usually contained no sharps. C is considered the neutral key. Ergo you find a lot of ballads from this time period used keys with flats. Popular keys were C-F-Bb-Eb although you will find an occasiona G(even though it has a sharp) G back in the 30's,40' and early 50's was the blues key. It's a key that both guitarists and Keyboard players find equal ease with. These keys are still popular with contemprary sofisticated offerings of artists such as Alica Keys and Norah Jones to name countless others.

Much of Rock was built on the guitar in standard tuning. The first chords guitarists often learn are open ones. The open notes resonate more on acoustic guitars. Hence most rock keys are E-A-D and G the first four strings on the guitar. Even with the popularity of drop tuning the open notes usually determine the key.

Then there are example keys which some people run from and others run to. C for the piano and A for the guitar. A is considered the royal key of the blues as many ideas especially pentatonics and the blues scale are expressed in learning material. The primary function of determining the key is so users have a starting point. After the starting point the user/student is expected to apply what they learn to other keys. Though it rarely gets to far. I've been playing blues/rock/jazz since I was 16. I'm 50 I've never played anything in Ab or F# I've played about 3 pieces in B.

While the key may not in and of itself imply an emotive value (an example I find E and B very bright sounding while I always hear Eb as warm. When I'm trying to evoke as certain sense of something my subconsious mind leads me to keys where I've heard that feel before. Even if it is more about the pulse then the key that leads me down that path.

[como baila]

When composing a piece of music how can you utilize the relationship?
Can you have a key change on the same scale?

The simple answer is 'yes.' Google Relative Major/ Relative Minor. For example, both C Major and A natural minor (or A aeolian) use the identical notes. Many folk songs weave between a major and minor key.

'tapper mike' gives you a sophisticated answer to the relationship of scales and keys. A simple, but also true, answer is that the key and scale are synonymous ... you cannot define one without the other in composition. That is, using the white piano keys, start with note C and hit one note after another up an octave and you just played in C Major. Do the same thing starting on the note A and you just played in A Minor. In other words, a key is the defining note (regardless of octave) plus the scale that takes you from one octave to another.

Because of the relationships of chords to keys, e.g., in Major keys tonic or I, dominant or V, etc., (something you need to get your head around as quickly as possible) there are also other relationships between keys that lead to clever modulation from one key to another and enharmonic notes (i.e., notes outside of the scale of the key, but part of the key of a non-tonic chord of the key), which will sound 'right' during the time the non-tonic chord is active in the progression.

Como

[tapper mike]

Yes I agree it's a sophisticated response. Some early ideas/treatments don't become relevant to the musician for a long time. However having the information early allows it to seep into the concious.

Going from major to relative minor isn't a big step. Using various subsitution principles is a bigger step but generally it's considered a part of the key/progression. This seems pretty headdy but it's not
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chord_substitution
Remember Chord subsitution is in context of the progression. A progression is only part of a song. Many Song forms have more then one progression.

Most songs have bridges built on a different key then the verse progression.
This is often a bigger step then choruses where a shared tonal center (two closely related keys such as C for the verse and F for the chorus.

To deep to get into here but you can also change the key in a song.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modulation_(music)

[krisroberts]

Thanks for the replies. All very helpful in there own way. Listen to this piece of electronic music by andrew bayer. I'ts called counting the points because it's main theme is counterpoint. This is the level i want to be at

[Nystul]

A key is a state of being. You have a tonal center and a primary mode and this is the world you are living in. Living in the key of C major involves more than just using a C major scale. As mentioned earlier, were you to use the notes of the C major scale but your tonal center is A, then you are actually in A minor. By the same token, being in the key of C major does not restrict you only to using the 7 tones of the C major scale. But the notes of that scale will be the primary source from which your melody and harmony is drawn.

[torry011]

The key refers to what the root is. Example the key is C. The scale talkes about if it is major or minor (or other types of scales)