SAW Studio 5 released...

[teomi]

Just wait for the screencast boys. Using items from a dropdown menu is just one way. There are knobs and buttons for everything and you can work with most control surfaces as well.

The only real comparable DAW to SAW is PT (other than MIDI) in the sense that it relies on kbrd shortcuts knowledge to really get up to speed with it.

I would say 99% of people that felt underwhelmed with SawStudio were the ones that didn't want to spend the time needed to pass the short yet crucial learning curve.

SAW Studio does not follow common windows procedures. So the use of mouse gestures is quite different compared to anything else.

I won't comment whether it's sounding better or not.

E

obviously you have very limited experience with other hosts

The only real comparable DAW to SAW is PT (other than MIDI) in the sense that it relies on kbrd shortcuts knowledge to really get up to speed with it

That is a joke and a half, have you tried cubase (I never have), sonar, studio one, samplitude, sequoia, neundo, and many others...I cant wait for this video you make but. FWIW keystroke is the same thing as keyboard shortcuts and this is not some new technology, I know samplitude and AA do this very well (samp is also skinable). I have not tried SAW, I have asked you direct questions and one of them you answered directly...it's not 64 bit. Other than that no other questions have been answered and tbh I can not be bothered to even attempt to demo it when I have something that does everything I need very, very, well and has the customer base to back this up.

The same holds true with many other hosts available for many users, but once again if it works for you that's great but if I am going to even think about spending 2000 dollars for all those limitations it better do some things that are decades ahead of the rest, not behind

EDIT: also working with controllers is not something unique either

If you read all I mentioned before, you can see that I am using Cubase and Protools daily. I've been using DAWs since 1992...

So instead of assuming I have limited experience. Know who you're talking to. Just courtesy...


There are a lot of standard features with audio editing that you simply cannot get in, say, Cubase, without programming macros. And even then it is never going to respond as fast...

Trim region from region start to cursor...
Trim region end to cursor....
Selecting a range without moving to a new tool....
Conforming a selection to a region..
prevent overlaps by default...


...Regions...which are a joke in Cubase for instance...
Batch processing of regions which is not intuitive in Cubase...

...Moving the cursor from within the arrangement window and not only through a ruler -- which is probably great for production but not so great for editing..

Most of these features and behaviors are common practice for Pro Tools and Saw Studio users, hence the comparison...

And these are just a 'few' that I can think of top of my head while eating lunch right now...

I'm happily using Cubase for all my production needs. But will prefer sending all the digital audio data stream live to Saw and work within its mixer to render stems and to final mixing and mastering on the fly.

E.

[teomi]

FWIW my question has still not been answered, what makes it worth the price? The answer seems to be it isn't for those of us educated in the industry, but if he can keep getting it from his loyal customers that's all that matters. I find that disturbing

Unless you are only recording and mixing it's not going to be all that useful to you as a SINGLE tool.



- It's lean
- It's got better metering response
- It can even work from a flash drive since it's done using assembly it does not rely on windows registry and the installation is just one folder that can be put anywhere.

- It's internal effects are great sounding and take extremely low CPU

- It can work in extremely low buffer size without the need of a really expensive computer and with lots of tracks running.

Plain and simple it has a more robust mixing interface (and here I am answering other questions that were asked here). It has very slick submixing/bussing and grouping engines that you set on the fly. The mix engine can run virtual or via external hardware. The insert points are all pre or post fader (as far as I know, no DAW does it. Even in Pro tools, only the master fader's insert can be set pre and post).

It loads up faster, loads sessions and files faster and renders faster.

And then..there is the workflow...

E.

[Hink]

Just wait for the screencast boys. Using items from a dropdown menu is just one way. There are knobs and buttons for everything and you can work with most control surfaces as well.

The only real comparable DAW to SAW is PT (other than MIDI) in the sense that it relies on kbrd shortcuts knowledge to really get up to speed with it.

I would say 99% of people that felt underwhelmed with SawStudio were the ones that didn't want to spend the time needed to pass the short yet crucial learning curve.

SAW Studio does not follow common windows procedures. So the use of mouse gestures is quite different compared to anything else.

I won't comment whether it's sounding better or not.

E

obviously you have very limited experience with other hosts

The only real comparable DAW to SAW is PT (other than MIDI) in the sense that it relies on kbrd shortcuts knowledge to really get up to speed with it

That is a joke and a half, have you tried cubase (I never have), sonar, studio one, samplitude, sequoia, neundo, and many others...I cant wait for this video you make but. FWIW keystroke is the same thing as keyboard shortcuts and this is not some new technology, I know samplitude and AA do this very well (samp is also skinable). I have not tried SAW, I have asked you direct questions and one of them you answered directly...it's not 64 bit. Other than that no other questions have been answered and tbh I can not be bothered to even attempt to demo it when I have something that does everything I need very, very, well and has the customer base to back this up.

The same holds true with many other hosts available for many users, but once again if it works for you that's great but if I am going to even think about spending 2000 dollars for all those limitations it better do some things that are decades ahead of the rest, not behind

EDIT: also working with controllers is not something unique either

If you read all I mentioned before, you can see that I am using Cubase and Protools daily. I've been using DAWs since 1992...

So instead of assuming I have limited experience. Know who you're talking to. Just courtesy...


There are a lot of standard features with audio editing that you simply cannot get in, say, Cubase, without programming macros. And even then it is never going to respond as fast...

Trim region from region start to cursor...
Trim region end to cursor....
Selecting a range without moving to a new tool....
Conforming a selection to a region..
prevent overlaps by default...


...Regions...which are a joke in Cubase for instance...
Batch processing of regions which is not intuitive in Cubase...

...Moving the cursor from within the arrangement window and not only through a ruler -- which is probably great for production but not so great for editing..

Most of these features and behaviors are common practice for Pro Tools and Saw Studio users, hence the comparison...

And these are just a 'few' that I can think of top of my head while eating lunch right now...

I'm happily using Cubase for all my production needs. But will prefer sending all the digital audio data stream live to Saw and work within its mixer to render stems and to final mixing and mastering on the fly.

E.

if I misunderstood you it's because you made a ridiculous statement saying that PT is the only one that compares to SAW when it comes to getting up to speed with keystrokes...had you the experience you say you would not have said that and that is what I was going on.

There are so many hosts that use keystrokes you can buy stickers for your keyboard that are labeled with your host's keystrokes. A guy at Samp around 2007 took one of those key pads grocery stores use at the register, he bought it cheap from a surplus store and he used it to control samp because you can assign keystrokes (as you can with many daws).

The only conclusion I can draw from such an unrealistic statement is that you do not have much experience with other hosts or you would know many use keystrokes and they really help you get up to speed with that host. I clicked your link and saw what you say there you are using and you listed cool edit pro which is AA now. You said you're also using Sonar "and on and on and on".

Can you not see the contradiction there when you say PT is the only one that compares with SAW to really get up to speed with keystrokes when in fact that is so obviously unrealistic?

[Hink]

Trim region from region start to cursor...
Trim region end to cursor....
Selecting a range without moving to a new tool....
Conforming a selection to a region..
prevent overlaps by default...

because your mouse tool in samp can be set to universal mode yoiu can indeed select a range without changing tools, you can select the region from where you want and trim what you want by hitting "T", beginning, end, middle...it doesn't matter. I believe overlaps you must nean crossfades which samp has a great crossfade editor that with object editing is even better.

I think that SAW works great for you and that's great but I also think you are turning a blind eye to hosts that do the exact same things just as well

I'm looking forward to seeing your video, I really want to see what makes it worth so much more...I dont see it yet

[teomi]

handheldsound is old news right now. It's under major revision and will be updated within the next months. Take everything you see there with a grain of salt. Last time I updated it was over 5 years ago...

Not sure I am convinced with "turning a blind eye" concept...how can I be doing that when on any given day I'm useing SawStudio/Pro Tools/Cubase/Wavelab/etc...

E.

[Hink]

handheldsound is old news right now. It's under major revision and will be updated within the next months. Take everything you see there with a grain of salt. Last time I updated it was over 5 years ago...

Not sure I am convinced with "turning a blind eye" concept...how can I be doing that when on any given day I'm useing SawStudio/Pro Tools/Cubase/Wavelab/etc...

E.

Because there are far so many other DAWs do the same things and cost much less. Dude everything you say is subjective...better metering? Does it use the K-system, what choices of metering do you have, what makes the metering better?

What makes the mixing more robust? The one thing I think it is all about is it's mixer and the ability to use it with live perormances and sound systems. But as far as robust in mixing features for a host I see nothing groundbreaking. However I might be a little biased on this because one of my favorite features of Samp is the mixer which includes a two channel surround selection in place of a pan that opens up a whole new world, it also has a multi band enhancer that helps me make mixes I think sound better (no samp mixes are on my page) and the fx suites are highly acclaimed. Like I said about the eq, it's fast it's logical and natural (that's not to say other hosts do not offer similar, I always liked sonitus). I wont go into one host sounding better than another, I avoid that discussion.

Just curious because I have never used cubase, are you saying cubase does not have keystrokes? Also does SAW (I assume it must) have surround sound?

I'm sorry, I still just dont see it...I see it being a good host, I see it being a better fit for some than others (but the same can be said with any host...especially workflow, which is highly subjective) but I do not see what makes it worth the price and that's all I am saying. Quite frankly if I were you and paid 2K for a host and still felt the need to use other hosts for any other reason than per client request I would not be very happy. I stopped AA at 2.0, I have FL, eXT, I stopped Sonar at Sonar 5 and I do not feel the need to use any of them since getting samp in 07 (FL is installed because it's fun), hence my confusion

[teomi]

Cubase has keystroke shortcuts, of course. Every host has them. The thing about Saw is that it almost asks you not to rely on mouse and menus.

That's why I compared it to Pro Tools because it's the same deal there.

And yes Saw is 10.1


I am not being subjective really..I tried everything under the sun and have made my choices.
I was on Sonar, Logic, and now Cubase.
I was on Samplitude (very early on) and moved to Saw.

Will I buy it now if I didn't have it? I am not sure...
It definitely cannot exist on its own as a sole production tool.

Does it have groundbreaking features? Yes. Rpbably the most important ones are stability and workflow.

E.

[dgkenney]

So the use of mouse gestures is quite different compared to anything else.

Something like this???




I'm sorry....I couldn't resist.

Dan

[trimph1]

mmmmmm...why would someone want to spend $2,000 on a hard disk recording editor?

I found several that work just as well without the cost factor...

Aaah..but then it would not have that SAW mystique I guess...

[Xenakios]

The price of SAW is probably explained by sales of it being a major source of income for Bob Lentini, not by whatever features it has or lacks. (ie, he just has to charge that much to make a profit/living, no matter what people on this forum or elsewhere think is the "real value".)

[LawrenceF]

mmmmmm...why would someone want to spend $2,000 on a hard disk recording editor?

Not that I have a dog in this humorous fight but...

http://www.frontendaudio.com/ProductDet ... lick=18920

I think X48 users are afraid to come to KVR. The carnage will be brutal.

Anyway, assume the computer and monitor is worth $1k and the audio I/O another $2k. That leaves a $2k daw? I wonder how it measures up to ReaBendoTools.

[Dean Aka Nekro]

I know it is hard to admitt but let me put this one forwards as a 'In A Nutshell' situation:

You shelled out circa $2000 on what_may_have_been very effecient when other comparable applications needed additional (mostly) properietry DSP cards to do the same thing an epoch ago. However as time has passed every half-decent multi-track hard disk recording application can do what it does but having gotten so used to whatever certain strengths that YOU find SAWStudio to behold that it is YOUR preferred CHOICE for CERTAIN TASKS, That is fair enough as that is YOUR OPINION and we are all entitled to OUR OWN.

You are on the defensive so much that via retrospect I THINK you can not deal with the truth. You know full well ya' got rick rolled with the price. A very similar phenomenon happens in the audiophile/audiophool world where a participent will gladly pay thousands for some snake oil blessed speaker cable, AND HELL YES of course they can hear a massive difference but are shocked when none of their friend's can not. SAWStudio is clearly dated as is the archaic vision of its developer but fortunately in_your_view and from personal_experience you still find that it works for your_needs. If you were being honest you would of stated off the bat that these days RML with their offering is really out of touch with reality and at $2000 they are having a laugh

Admitt you got ripped off and you will feel alot better...YMMV on that one but I find it helps if I am able to admitt fully my fails and even laugh along

If it were any of these setups then i could see why it was/is justifiable price wise: http://www.sadie.com/sadie_home.php or: http://www.merging.com/ maybe this also: http://www.izcorp.com/index.php plus this: http://www.samplitude.com/en/sequoia/at ... .1760.html
But as it is not. Cockos' REAPER 3 (soon to be at v4) would be an absolute no-brainer oppose to SAWStudio as would IMHO almost any other application capable of multi-track hard disc recording, Editing & Mixing

My £0.02p

Nekro

[teomi]

So if I share my thoughts I'm being defensive?
And now I must admit to being ripped off to make myself feel better?


Seems the other way around..so far most of you here came back with a combo of sarcasm/dismissal/offense..and defense. And all I did was to comment and try to iron out some misconceptions.

Do you even know what being defensive is?

I'm happy where I am at, and was always positive in my comments while you and others are either skeptics/jump to conclusions/ and or annoyed that someone thinks differently.

Even though this someone probably has quite an experience with DAWs.

At any rate, will I make myself feel better if I admit that I got ripped off..or will it be you that feel better if I do so?

Cause if it's the latter, I'll gladly admit.

E.

[LawrenceF]

I actually like Bob. He's the exact opposite of a stupid man. I bought his SAMM product a long time ago, the software that remotely controlled the Yammy Promix 01. http://www.rmllabs.com/SAMM.htm

Great software and it was worth every penny. I think the general GUI design was similar to, if not the groundwork for SAW, not sure which came first.

He's kind of a "boutique" shop in a way like Lavry with a relatively small (comparably speaking) but very loyal customer base. You don't have to justify your choice to anyone really but (perhaps) some of the features you talked about aren't all that uncommon these days... causing some of the reaction.

But if SAW works for you and makes you money... do you really care what anyone else thinks about it? If so I would ask... why?

I couldn't "get on" with it either and I must have demoed 7-8 times at least over the years. The idea of having a real large format "virtual console" sounded good but in practice I didn't like it so much. Having said that, I don't recall anything graphically in it ever being slow, on the UI... as far as things moving around. The graphic drawing is/was as smooth as a baby's ass...

[teomi]

No I don't care about what others think. I'm just the kind of guy that likes to share knowledge. Ask my students

E.