Your next guitar?

[DF2R]

They don't make them like him anymore.
Lol,
susiwong

Btw, in case you have a chance to watch the Eagles' Melbourne DVD set, check out "You Belong To The City" (didn't find it on youtube)
Pure Miami Vice vibe , and Walsh's ending solo is beautiful.

Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for it

[DF2R]

My PRS SE conversion is about to become a reality:



Today I ordered a Dimarzio EJ Custom Neck and PAF 36th Anniversary Bridge F-Spaced, both zebra with gold pole pieces, with new matching mounting rings and gold screws, as well as some Grover locking tuners with ebony buttons, a gold toggle switch, and a gold jack and jack plate. The only thing left is to order a Tone Pros wraparound bridge.

I think it's beautiful.

[DF2R]

Certainly not to everyone's taste, not avantgarde either, but nevertheless he was groundbreaking with his amazing technique of playing harmony lines.

Make no mistake,that's all Scotty, Arlen only plays some chords.
He uses the pick and the nail of his right hand index finger to pluck two adjacent strings simultaneously.
Try it, it's basically not that hard, works with plectrum too, but using it the way Scotty does takes a little bit more.
Plus he invented this very useful technique afaik.

Ymmv,
susiwong

Great playing. I kinda like country style stuff.

[hibidy]

All these examples remind me of how bad I suck

[Uncle E]

I just stumbled on "half air mod":

http://www.lonephantom.com/2010/07/modi ... f-air-mod/

It's supposed to make the Tone Zone sound identical to the pickup Dimarzio custom-wound for EVH. Personally, the Norton pickup already gets me there but I'm going to do this mod to my #2 Ibanez.

Here's some more modding coolness:

http://www.lonephantom.com/2010/11/tami ... tone-zone/
http://www.lonephantom.com/2011/02/tami ... #more-2269
http://www.lonephantom.com/2011/03/more ... #more-2325

This makes me want to bust out my strat:

[trimph1]

mmmm...makes me wonder how to modify their shred to my version of shred....

[Dean Aka Nekro]

That was kinda awesome Dean,
inspiring!
Cheers

+1 on this!!!

Cheers guys

[Dean Aka Nekro]

Certainly not to everyone's taste, not avantgarde either, but nevertheless he was groundbreaking with his amazing technique of playing harmony lines.

Make no mistake,that's all Scotty, Arlen only plays some chords.
He uses the pick and the nail of his right hand index finger to pluck two adjacent strings simultaneously.
Try it, it's basically not that hard, works with plectrum too, but using it the way Scotty does takes a little bit more.
Plus he invented this very useful technique afaik.

Ymmv,
susiwong

Great playing. I kinda like country style stuff.

I enjoyed that one also, Shows that gain is not the big factor in speed/technique is paramount

[susiwong]

Carl Verheyen - great player !
Whatever he does to keep his Strat in tune, angling the spring claw has no influence whatever.
Write down the physical equation, try it out or watch here :

What it does however is change the parasitical resonance of the outer springs, altering the tone somewhat.
Likewise the 3/2/1 semitone ratio is not adjustable, all you can do is "tune" the up bend globally.

There are other factors which really influence tuning stability, I guess these are the real reasons why Carl stays in tune so well, a player of his caliber does these things correct subconsciously.
- relatively fresh strings (Hink will disagree, but still ... )
- fixed and wound correctly at the tuners
- stretched brutally until they settle down
(forgetting this is the most common mistake)
- a well cut nut, graphite preferred, but the slots are most important, lubricating them with graphite powder (pencil) won't hurt
- make sure the 6 pivot screws are in perfect condition (no scars) and set up to the correct, identical height, just enough to let the trem move freely, not more, not less
- locking tuners are nice but not essential
- the remaining 30% are down to the player, constantly stretching strings while tuning or when a string goes slightly sharp, always tuning up to pitch to keep tension, and not least how you handle the bar, how you release it etc.
- most of this applies to Bigsbys and other trems as well

Ymmv,
susiwong

[susiwong]

I enjoyed that one also, Shows that gain is not the big factor in speed/technique is paramount

Very true.
Doesn't take anything away from the fact that nowadays kids wanting to play metal/prog guitar are almost the only ones really working on their technique with discipline, the few country- and jazz students are almost negligible, unfortunately.
I'm a good example for bad habits myself.

Ymmv,
susiwong

[Hink]

Carl Verheyen - great player !
Whatever he does to keep his Strat in tune, angling the spring claw has no influence whatever.

I dont care much about checking out the formula, having set many whammy systems in my life I will tell you the key is in the claw and springs. I prove it all the time to myself and I really have nothing to prove anyone else. However I can go from one tuning to a vastly different one by adjusting the claw, probably somewhere in the nieghborhood of 100-200 times in my life someone would come into my store because they were having the old 'everytime I get one string in tune the rest are out' problem and in 5 minutes it was fixed by adjusting the the claw (I even designed and made a tool for changing strings based on this that has served me wll for 13 years now). Does this mean angling the claw is what did it? No, but the truth and a matter of physics is that a whammy system is about balance and tension, the claw is a great way and extremely overlooked way of balancing the system and because the tension is different between the size of strings assuming that a straight claw is the best is somewhat questionable. (I have not watched the video)

There are other factors which really influence tuning stability, I guess these are the real reasons why Carl stays in tune so well, a player of his caliber does these things correct subconsciously.
- relatively fresh strings (Hink will disagree, but still ... )
- fixed and wound correctly at the tuners
- stretched brutally until they settle down
(forgetting this is the most common mistake)
- a well cut nut, graphite preferred, but the slots are most important, lubricating them with graphite powder (pencil) won't hurt
- make sure the 6 pivot screws are in perfect condition (no scars) and set up to the correct, identical height, just enough to let the trem move freely, not more, not less
- locking tuners are nice but not essential
- the remaining 30% are down to the player, constantly stretching strings while tuning or when a string goes slightly sharp, always tuning up to pitch to keep tension, and not least how you handle the bar, how you release it etc.
- most of this applies to Bigsbys and other trems as well

Ymmv,
susiwong

Again, I have nothing to prove to anyone even a very good friend like you but the only time old strings make a difference in tuning is when the string is starting to go. Technically guitar strings really do not stretch very much (if at all, I should use my macro lenses to prove this but am too lazy and I really have no reason to care if people believe they are actually stretching strings), I wont get into the physics of that but when a string actually starts to stretch it's going to break very soon. It has to do mostly with the hardness of strings, what really is happening when we stretch strings is they are saeting themselves and once they are set they are staying in tune.

Dont believe me? A piano is a stringed instrument no? Do you know a lot of people who have changed the enitire set of strings for a piano? Of course there is the concept that the oils on your fingers damage guitar strings which is true and why they lose (or gain in my case) the tone people like. But if you wipe down your neck, do not have a layer of crud on your strings they stay in tune even when they grow old as nothing is changing the actually physics of the strings. If you really still refuse to believe me as you say when it comes to the last resort listen to the pros...well many, many, many pros agree with me...and some dont.

My guitars never leave the house, once seated I can take a guitar that hasn't been played in months and it will be within cents of being in tune. Again another example of old strings staying in tune well is that of a dulcimer and the the tuning pegs for a dulcimer are not set in machined studs and are set in the wood (while a hard wood it's still not as precision as properly machined threads). A dulcimer does an amazing job staying in tune and again not too many people want to change the strings often.

The truth is the neck is far more (by leaps and bounds) to affect the guitar staying in tune. Wood reacts to environmental factors more than metal (though machinists with gauge blocks which must be kept at the same temp all the time...note the intersting concept of wringing), people change the strings and it stays in tune and they think "well it must be because the strings are new"...but not until they go out of tune for a bit while seating.

The biggest mistakes people make is too many windings on the machine head post, not taking into consideration the changes due to the weather (one reason why I have less isuues because my room stays the same temp year round but my guitars rarely leave the house) and sloppy installation...this is one area you must do a decent job without over doing it. You're right about keeping tension while tuning new strings, this decreases the break in period. But once strings are broken in they will not go out of tune as easy.

I could spend a lot of time researching the info using the rockwell hardness chart, the machinist handbook and other resources but there is no point because if you prefer newer strings than you should have newer strings. However if you think my guitars with older strings are more likely to go out of tune than fairly new strings as you put it I invite you to come by anytime and let me show you my guitars and allow you to use YOUR ears and any tuner you want. Any difference you will find (which there will be) will be so tiny it could be explained by many factors other than string age and out of the range of human hearing.

Once again you're 100% correct about playing style, I do not know a lot of people who tune their guitars when they put them away. I do not but I keep my guitars in the best tune I can, I do more wild things with whammy bars than a lot of people, as you can hear from my music I do a lot of extreme bends. My guitars are within cents once they are seated everytime I pick up my guitar (btw I know this will unpopular because so many people ignore facts and go with myth but for years and years I have shocked people by having no more than one 1 1/2 full wraps around the tuning peg on my hardtails and the guitars stay in tune.

As someone who has a strong background in working with all kinds of metals to tolerances down to .00005 (or in machine shop we called it +/- half a ten thousandth which very few machines will do), 4 decades of playing guitar, stringing guitars, repairing guitars and building guitars you or nobody else will change myy mind (and I wont change yours). I know with the highest confidence my older strings will stay in tune just fine because I have witnessed this 10s of thousands of times in my life and I have a firm understanding of the physics of metal otherwise I would not have a diploma.

I understand that you have years of playing experience but it is imho not only possible but probable the reasons you feel it's the string that is at fault is incorrect however changing the strings fixes the problem, that does not mean it's the string itself while it is 110% true that changing the strings will solve the issue (you're just fixing a different issue without knowing it).

Of course YMMV but I think that people should look at what seems less obvious when they are having issues keeping guitars in tune. 99.99% of the time it has to do with the player and not the gear. One other issue far worse than string age is cheap tuners (though I prefer the term machine head), once again I had to have extensive training into making gears and the properties of gears.

One issue with gears that is not avoidable, will never change and HAS to exist is that of backlash. The concept of a gear having no backlash is 100% wrong, in order for gears to mesh there must be some 'clearence' (you can not put a 1/4" rod into a 1/4" hole), clearence is what creates backlash. A machinist when they have to change directions like say on a milling machine table will back the the handle or dial off one full turn past where they want to be and then return to zero which takes up the backlash.

Example, you're making a simple project like parallel bars (they go in a vise to hold the piece up above the vice jaws while keeping the piece to be machine parallel to the table). So you start with one end of all the bars you are going to make. You start by putting the stock (the material you are working with) in the vice, using a tool called an edge finder (though there is a neat trick with the celophane cigarettes come packed it that works great), loosen the lock on the calibrated ring so you can set the ring to zero and then begin your maching process (of course you set a stop in the vice so each piece goes in the same way). When you are done with the first piece you MUST back off beyond the zero (coventional wisdom or at least what i was taught was by at least .100") you just set in the opposite direction before you bring it back to zero or you will be making paper weights because zero will not be the same zero.

The same is true with the gears in machine heads, a trick I use all the time to avoid this is to tune up as you say. This relieves the backlash and the tendancy of the tension on the strings to pull on the gears so the strings go out of tune (that's the physics behind the concept which imo you are correct on). Cheap machine heads have too much clearence in the gears because they were not machined to as accurate tolerances as expensive machine heads and there is more wiggle room. (or worse they were cast)

People change strings (and understandably so) out of pride for taking care of the instrument and getting the better tone of new strings. However many artists prefer older strings and there are many other factors that have more impact on tuning than old strings ever could have and it is far more likely that those issues are the real culprit. Of course YMMV which is all that matters, but there are a lot of myths out there some people believe them and some dont, some (as hibidy is learning) exploit those myths to make money. I have no doubt in my mind that both of us are very fussy about how well in tune our guitars are and I doubt mine or your's are any more or less in tune we just have differnt priorities and different tastes.

great piece on backlash http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCBacklash1.htm

[vurt]

ive got strings on one guitar probably as old as your daughter hink lol
to be fair it never gets played, otherwise my heavy handed playing leads to strings lasting maybe two or three sessions before the top two snap

the strings on my bass are older still ...

[hibidy]

I can bend and whammy my guitars until the cows come home and I never break strings It's not to brag, it's just that if an idiot like me can be that "lucky", someone else should have similar luck.

Got to be a bur (spelling?) or something that is causing that.

[hibidy]

Oh, and good to see Hink back

[Hink]

ive got strings on one guitar probably as old as your daughter hink lol
to be fair it never gets played, otherwise my heavy handed playing leads to strings lasting maybe two or three sessions before the top two snap

the strings on my bass are older still ...

it's a very touchy subject for some reason and it shouldn't be. If one likes changing their strings then change the strings. No one needs to validate why they like new strings and no one needs to validate why they like old strings. To back up the premise based on nothing but subjective reasoning is a waste of time.

I should add though that I do not use any guitars with nylon strings and that is an entirely different scenario.