Vintage Synth Emulations/Live Controlling of a Drum Machine (Page 2)

[Compyfox]

So how do I connect that thing actually and how can I let it trigger the drum machine so that Spark recognizes this controller?

You connect/daisy chain everything through MIDI. That's what the MIDI In/Out ports are for. Or if the used devices all have USB slots and are globally connected to a PC/Mac, then through USB if that is more comfortable/simpler for you. The other ports are for additional footswitches and don't send any signal, only receive.

Why does it say that it's for guitars or V-Amps?

Because it is built for exactly that in the first place. A stomp controller for guitar amp plugins or actual guitar amps that are able to be controlled via MIDI.

But as with the Behriner Control range, or any other control device of that matter, it is not necessarily laid out to do just that exclusively - if it's customizable. The Novation Launchpad for example can be used for several hosts and not only Ableton Live alone. Why shouldn't it be the case with other customizable MIDI controllers?

I could setup "my" BCR to play notes rather than trigger MIDI CC values as well. But it's a bit of a pain. Then again, it is not limited to MIDI CC values only - I can do way more with it. Same with the FCB1010. And with the upgraded/modded OS chip, you can even pull off certain values/keyswitches simultaneously rather than in serial.



It might be worth a try, though I still fail to see where you could move your hand away for a moment to hit a button on the SPARK to trigger something else. Unless you really constantly have arps and melodies on a split/setup keyboard.

[randyandyvandaman]

Unless you really constantly have arps and melodies on a split/setup keyboard.

Which is exactly what the Lab 49 will give you. Splits and arps.

Well worth a look.

You connect/daisy chain everything through MIDI. That's what the MIDI In/Out ports are for.

Spark does not have MIDI Thru.

Cheers

[Compyfox]

I digged through the trail of bones again and I don't think that the OP needs another keyboard.

In his sig are two keyboards listed, both with USB connections. The Yamaha MM6 and the Novation Ultranova. The Arturia Spark also works through MIDI and (if I got that right) works best with a PC/Mac running. Since the OP also wants to control the OP-X Pro-II, I think all is good and fine through USB MIDI. The routing is then done in the host.

Taking all that into consideration, the Behringer FCB1010 is still a possible solution to his problem.


Now if only USB slots would work like old MIDI IN/OUT/THRU, but without the need of a PC/Mac as hub, that would be great. But someone in the development section was obviously sleeping on that end.

[matt1314]

The John Bowen synths are not VSTis, but require a Scope card. There are also avaliable as Sonic Core Scope versions of those synths (Profit-5 and proTone). If you want to include those maybe asterix them and you could also include Sonic Core's Minimax (Minimoog emu) and Prodyssey (Odyssey emu). Their UKnow 007 is pretty much a Juno 106 emu too.

How about GForce's M-Tron Pro?

Thanks, list updated.

You connect/daisy chain everything through MIDI. That's what the MIDI In/Out ports are for. Or if the used devices all have USB slots and are globally connected to a PC/Mac, then through USB if that is more comfortable/simpler for you. The other ports are for additional footswitches and don't send any signal, only receive.

Yes, my MM6 and the Ultranova are connected with the PC, each with one USB cable. So where do I need MIDI cables and what devices will I need to connect with the FCB-1010 with the MIDI cables? The MM6 with the FCB?

It might be worth a try, though I still fail to see where you could move your hand away for a moment to hit a button on the SPARK to trigger something else. Unless you really constantly have arps and melodies on a split/setup keyboard.

I don't have constantly arps etc. but I do use arps with some melodies. I use the Ultranova for the arps and the MM6 for the melody. And if I want to trigger the fill-in, I'll need to take off one hand of the MM6 to trigger the fill-in on the Spark controller or via clicking the knob on the Spark GUI. That's why I need a foot controller to quickly change between the different drum elements...

[Compyfox]

Since the Spark is the one that needs to be controlled, I would have said "connect the MIDI ports from Spark with the FCB", but since I assumed as much that everything is connected to the PC anyway, it's simpler.

Connect the FCB through USB as well (though I'm not 100% sure if that works - I don't have the device and I didn't dig through the manual!), after it is setup of course, then do the routing within your host. The FCB triggers Spark, the MM6/Ultranova trigger other VSTi or work as standalone synths.

That simple.


Should the FCB1010 need a MIDI adapter, 1x1 modules don't cost a fortune and are pretty much self explanory.


One Q out of pure curiosity:
Are you native German or English? Since you live in Berlin.

[matt1314]

Connect the FCB through USB as well (though I'm not 100% sure if that works - I don't have the device and I didn't dig through the manual!), after it is setup of course, then do the routing within your host. The FCB triggers Spark, the MM6/Ultranova trigger other VSTi or work as standalone synths.

I'm not really familiar with routing but if I imagine correctly what you said, I'll have to select the MIDI channel of Spark to be the FCB controller, correct? Or am I going to have to set up the Mixer somehow? For example, I control Arturia Jupiter-8 V with MM6, so the instrument track of the JP-8 V says on the left "MM6" (the general settings) as the MIDI input channel and the Minimoog V with the Ultranova, so it says "Ultranova". Same thing with the FCB? And how do I program the different pedals on the FCB to trigger the Spark buttons? Is there a thing like Novation's Automap?

One Q out of pure curiosity:
Are you native German or English? Since you live in Berlin.

German.

[Compyfox]

I'm not really familiar with routing but if I imagine correctly what you said, I'll have to select the MIDI channel of Spark to be the FCB controller, correct? Or am I going to have to set up the Mixer somehow? For example, I control Arturia Jupiter-8 V with MM6, so the instrument track of the JP-8 V says on the left "MM6" (the general settings) as the MIDI input channel and the Minimoog V with the Ultranova, so it says "Ultranova". Same thing with the FCB?

Pretty much, yeah.

Example with Cubase's Inspector on the left of the main arrangement window:
Input: MIDI Keyboard or MIDI Controller
Output: VSTi or desired hardware

That's pretty much all about it in terms of routing.
So in case of your setup:

MIDI INPUT: Yamaha MM6
MIDI OUTPUT: Arturia Jupiter-8v

MIDI INPUT: Novation Ultranova
MIDI OUTPUT: Minimoog V

MIDI INPUT: Behringer FCB1010
MIDI OUTPUT: Arturia Spark VSTi

And how do I program the different pedals on the FCB to trigger the Spark buttons? Is there a thing like Novation's Automap?

Unfortunately, AutoMap is a pretty much unique feature that I wish that Behringer modules (or others of that matter) could use natively. You need to setup such modules with proper editors. There are a handful available for the FCB1010 (I earlier linked a YahooGroup where you have a great starting point). Some of them even very visual so you see what you do.

You only need some basic knowledge of MIDI CC# (MIDI CC numbers) and which key on the keyboard (MIDI Note On key) triggers what on Spark. If you never dived into MIDI stuff, it's a bit hard to wrap your head around it, but it's actually pretty simple.

[Crackbaby]

ABL .. Can't go 80's (and ever after) without a TB-303! Also, check out any sid-chip emulator. I had great fun making bllips with a commodore C128 when i was young! You could make noise and have stroboscopic patterns in the same program

Maybe it was written in the last thread but do you want synths used in the 80's, have synths that sounds like synths used in the 80's or want to make music that sounds like music made in the 80's?

My personal experience is that synths that look like real synths (arturia etc) isn't very userfriendly. There's one thing to use physical knobs and another when you use a mouse. (Have a look at Charlatan, a just released soft synth with specs you were likely to find on older synths .. sounds GREAT!)
Though if you want to have a go at those vintage synths then you pretty much got them all or they were mentioned previously in this thread I only had a juno-106 and after that VA and then softsynths.

The sound of the 80's not only requires the synthsound from that era but also the gear available as sequencers, arpeggios, tape, maybe-not-so-good digital effects, analog effects, live playing/tweaking when recording.
I think i started with sequencers in 1992 and then there was no asio soundcards that i know of. I had a soundblaster awe64 with 4Mb sample memory. While 16 channels, only one could use the filter. Later on i got an analogue mixer (mackie 1202-VLZ) and i could use that to overdrive my juno and cs1x by tweaking the microphone gain. Using things the way they were not ment to be used is a good trick to get the sound. Today you have a tool for everything and most often available in freeware even. But back then you had to be creative

Computer music recently had a good article on making synths sound "old".

Good luck!

[matt1314]

You only need some basic knowledge of MIDI CC# (MIDI CC numbers) and which key on the keyboard (MIDI Note On key) triggers what on Spark. If you never dived into MIDI stuff, it's a bit hard to wrap your head around it, but it's actually pretty simple.

Okay, so it's actually simple as you said, but unfortunately I never had anything to do with MIDI things because I always use USB with my softsynths.

Maybe it was written in the last thread but do you want synths used in the 80's, have synths that sounds like synths used in the 80's or want to make music that sounds like music made in the 80's?

Actually all you mentioned.

But back then you had to be creative

Thanks a lot for the info and your experience. That's really interesting. I wish music nowadays would let me people be more creative and not use all that ready to use digital gear for some s**tty music. Imagine some modern dance artists playing live an Oberheim! I don't think this will ever be realized...

[Crackbaby]

Lately i've been trying to find a midi vst sequencer working like the hardware ones did in the 80's.

Not sure how much you know about such things, but instead of having a standard pianoroll sequencer window, these have 8 or 16 knobs you turn to change pitch on each note.

http://www.tubeohm.com/TubeOhm/A-T_und_ ... _free.html <- good example

Im not sure they will work in every sequencer. First of all your sequencer must allow you to chain plugins and them sending midi and not just audio. Second they must sync well. EnergyXT doesn't do this, it doesnt trigger right away when starting the sequencer ...... Which is a big shame!

I see i missread about the midi .. so you very well may have known about midi vsti's

If i may boost charlatan once again - http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... sc&start=0 - it's simple, sounds great and makes you creative .. at least that is what it does to me

Imagine the 80's. You have 2 analogue synths and one sampler. First you must make drums with them (that is a lot of fun!) and then sample. Everytime you try a new synth, make a habit of making some drums and sample. You'll build up a very personal collection fast
It depends on what music you make ofc, but for instance you could make a pad with both synths, sample them and merge them to get a big pad sound. Sequence a bassline and sample. NI's Maschine is great for this as you can sample on the go without the need to mixdown and export etc etc.. Maschine works like a hardware sampler but it's powered by your pc and you can have as many instances of it as you want if you use it as a vsti (works as a stand-alone host also).
If you want you could make up a "fake" mixer. Take 16 mono channels and two busses, 4 aux sends. Pick four effects for the sends. www.dreamvortexstudio.co.uk has some really good ones. 2-3 knobs only so it lets you focus on other stuff You have 2x delay, one reverb and one flanger .. pretty much what to expect from those days. Two compressors with sidechain input. Not common in those days but it helps so much to get a good sound (ie bassdrum controlling the drumbus compression and another the one for the bassline). VarietyOfSound has some great plugins, NastyVCS is a channelstrip with sidechain among other things. Finish off with their FerricTDS (tape compression/saturator) plugin after a BootEQmkII to get the last adjustments.

Each of the mixerchannels should also have a 3 band eq, low and high shelving + mid sweep.

This would have been a DREAM setup when i started out with music and i think most would agree If people could make music back then, this kit should work now also!

As for the two synths, try U-he's tyrellN6 and Charlatan ... They are great and free. Hehe.. this kit would have cost a few months worth of salary and now you can get it all for free :p
A sampler to use with this could be http://www.kvraudio.com/get/977.html .. one of the few that actually sample. It lets you sample a synth and use it to play them back .. also free and extremely versatile!

To make it even more 80's .. once you've completed two tracks with this setup, you may add another piece of gear (if that 12" is selling good that is )

I have no idea if this was of any use to you .. but it made me think a little so thank you I think im going to exactly what i wrote here

[matt1314]

I have no idea if this was of any use to you .. but it made me think a little so thank you I think im going to exactly what i wrote here

Haha, no problem. Well, actually it was a bit useful for me but your experience contains so many audio related words that I never heard of, like sidechain input, drumbus compression, low + high shelving, mid sweep etc. So... yeah.

I'll check out these TubeOhm synths, that's good that they are free. I thought about buying TubeOhm Vintage, maybe it also has some nice analog sounding stuff? I already checked out the demo, I really liked it.