Theory about a B major on a C minor song

[ecsmix]

Hi guys, I was wondering what would be the explanation of a B major on a C minor song.

What's more, on the chord change below it gives me a sense of resolution.

Goes like this:

Abmaj - Cmin - Bmaj

Doest it work like this? VI - i - #VIImaj?? / in C minor.

Thanks.

[anomandaris1]

Bmaj is chromatic chord - IV-VI -V - It's variation - instead of Bbmaj7 is used Bmaj

[ecsmix]

Guys thanks for the answers but I still don't get it.

Bmaj is chromatic chord - IV-VI -V - It's variation - instead of Bbmaj7 is used Bmaj

Which key is that? modulation?

C-B, G-F# chromatic step backwards will create the sense of resolution specifically because of the jump from Ab to C. Chord building to resolve

That's cool, can you tell me a book which explain more of this voice leading technics.

Thanks.

[anomandaris1]

Cminor/Ebmajor

[jancivil]

so far these 'answers' look like random thoughts/guesses.

in isolation, I get Ab as the center. I def. do not get any feeling of resolution at B, it sounds like bIII of Ab (which would be a Cb chord btw) to me. but I don't know if there is other context this is extracted from or something. in terms of key relationships, B is pretty distant from C minor.

[ecsmix]

I hope I am right, this is the song.

[psenior]

This song is probably the reason why the guys from Ministry started a side project band called Kill M****r F*****g Depeche Mode (KMFDM).

[jancivil]

that video isn't available here.

here's a hint: B major isn't going to be any point of resolution in a song that's really in C minor. beyond that, any theory about these three chords in isolation is going to be an original theory. music theory is just describing why a thing works by someone that believes it works. I doubt there's any meaningful theory extant to speak of about this thing. I don't have an opinion about those three chords as you've given them, other than what I said above. It's a bit odd to me, not that there is anything wrong with that.

[vurt]

it sounded good to the composer?

[jancivil]

that's about it.


to clarify, apparently, someone is trying to say to you 'B is bVI of Eb Major, which is the relative Major to C Minor'. while that would be a true statement in and of itself, it's not relevant.

[cryophonik]

Abmaj - Cmin - Bmaj

Doest it work like this? VI - i - #VIImaj?? / in C minor.

I think you have the general idea. The song doesn't "resolve" to the Bmaj, rather, the chorus ends on it and it was used effectively to create tension, before "resolving" back to the tonic (i.e., Cmin). So, in that context, it functions similar to a leading tone (at least to my ears). Great song btw - my band played that song decades ago when I was actually a theory major and I recall thinking what a weird, but effective, chord progression.

Here's the song:



The chord in question first appears at 1:06

[Gamma-UT]

This song is probably the reason why the guys from Ministry started a side project band called Kill M****r F*****g Depeche Mode (KMFDM).

In which parallel universe did this happen?

[strav101]

Abmaj - Cmin - Bmaj

Doest it work like this? VI - i - #VIImaj?? / in C minor.

The song doesn't "resolve" to the Bmaj, rather, the chorus ends on it and it was used effectively to create tension, before "resolving" back to the tonic (i.e., Cmin).

I agree - this B Major chord is not a resolution - it's just a chromatic slip - C to B, G to F# - Eb is the common tone enharmonically changing to D#. It's this common tone and the semitone drops that makes it smooth and somehow 'work'

In C Major: e min -> Eb Maj doesn't seem that distant (iii -> III) just moving between transformations on the mediant. Look at Schoenberg's Structual Function of Harmony.
You could call it a transformational shift of i -> bI e.g C min - Cb maj (Yes - It is chromatic harmony!)

[Gamma-UT]

I agree - this B Major chord is not a resolution - it's just a chromatic slip - C to B, G to F# - Eb is the common tone enharmonically changing to D#. It's this common tone and the semitone drops that makes it smooth and somehow 'work'

In C Major: e min -> Eb Maj doesn't seem that distant (iii -> III) just moving between transformations on the mediant. Look at Schoenberg's Structual Function of Harmony.
You could call it a transformational shift of i -> bI e.g C min - Cb maj (Yes - It is chromatic harmony!)

Although I like the song, I've not bothered to look at it closely up to now and always thought of the arrangement of the chorus as being something like a chromatic mediant in action. But as jancivil says, in this case, I don't think there's a real need to go that far. However, the song does a bit of a mode shift, bringing in Ebm in place of Eb during the verse. As there's no real cadence anywhere, which helps maintain the floating quality, it's true key is somewhat ambiguous.

The driving force, I think, lies in the subtle change at the end of the two phrases in the chorus. The first pass-through ends in Eb/Bb, with the melody ending on G; the second repeats but ends in Cb with the melody moving down a third to Eb. So you get the double semitone shift in the harmony but the melody is held strongly within the key of the song.

[jancivil]

given in isolation, it seems a mediant harmony as you say, whether Ab or Eb is 'center', by themselves Ab is the most solid of the three to my ear.

'In C minor,' all bets are off.

It's actually useful to ponder such a thing I think. I don't know this band or any context but my instinct is, there wasn't this kind of thought applied in the making of, it just sounded good to somebody and got the effect they desired.