Diversion - new VST synth released!

[sches]

"Beginner, School, mistakes" Thanks, that flatters me But, if you would like to go deeper in Diversion, you need to perform more artful tests. What are you looking for when passing a sawtooth through a lowpass? Moog-style basses and plucks? If I would use your style of tests I should to get rid of my favorite plugins, like Massive, Absynth and many others.

Let me ask you to forget about moogish sound for a second. There are lots of soft and hard synths, huge number of samples to offer you such sounds. Are you haven't enough that stuff still? Diversion is a versatile synth. May I ask if your favorite analogish synth offers you a way to design heavily distorted, buzzing sounds with a crystal highs, without any hum, mutter, undesired beatings? Like dubstep, for example. Diversion does. As well as it provides almost endless possibilities to create wide and deep true-stereo atmos and pads with a lot of nontrivial motion in a single patch. True metallic FXs, perfect bells, both harsh and gentle FM (really clean at last), real acid sounds without any aliasing. Would you like to try to modulate frequency of a sawtooth by another one? You ought to find Diversion's advantage here. What about cinematic sound design, swishes with a lot of details, impacts, strong inharmonic spaces? All of that you would find in Diversion, if you would like to do that. You can blast your sounds in many ways in Diversion. It offers a too long audio path and a very complex FX Matrix for that. Why do you stick with typical punchy basses in Diversion?

Do not call me novice, please. I know what I build, I know the sound what I have been looking for, and I know that current VST market has a real lack of such synths. Yes, maybe this is not your cup of tea…

[Teksonik]

Especially for new products, I *want* to hear what people like and/or dislike about the product, especially the 'sound'.

Why? Are you incapable of forming your own opinion? The only opinion that matters....good or bad....is your own. Even if for some reason you can't demo Diversion, I can't see using other people's opinions to make a decision whether to purchase or not....

It makes no sense to exclude all but positive impressions.

Just as it makes no sense to me to continue participating in a thread about a synth you don't like....ElectraX was mentioned....I think it sounds like two cats fighting but I don't waste my time posting in ElectraX threads about it because the basic sound will not change....

Besides, it's not like developers in the past haven't on occasion added more sonic flexibility to their synths by adding a couple of filter variations that allowed one to significantly change the character of the sound.

From what I'm reading it's not subtle variations that are at issue here but the basic bones and flesh structure of the sound....if that changes to please those who don't like it then those who do like it will no longer find it appealing....in other words change the character and you'll simply flip the haters to lovers and lovers to haters....now is it technically possible to change Diversion's sound so it pleases everybody? What do you think the odds are of that being possible or practical?

[Teksonik]

I still don't understand why people seem to think that Synthesizer automatically equals Saw Wave.... don't we have enough standard VA's already?

Because running a simple saw wave through a filter tells a person a HUGE amount of information.

You're missing the point that not all Synthesiszer sounds are about Saws or "Analog"....and I've got a half dozen more years of tweaking on you......

[Teksonik]

Hmm am I the only one who thinks that it sounds as bad as a 2002 Reaktor ensemble, while consuming 10 times more CPU than most commercial synths?

Yes, you're the only one with Tin ears..............

What do ears have to do with it?

Because you said it "sounds as bad as"....In case you've missed it along the way Ears are those things on the side of the head that allow people to hear if something sounds good or not....yours are apparently filled with a foreign substance....most likely fecal in nature....(ok that last bit wasn't necessary but I couldn't resist )


This is the perfect example of what I'm talking about....if you think this synth sounds so bad why are you still here? State your opinion and then move on......or is the whole idea just to troll or to grace us with your imaginary superior sense of hearing?

[bmanic]

"Beginner, School, mistakes" Thanks, that flatters me But, if you would like to go deeper in Diversion, you need to perform more artful tests. What are you looking for when passing a sawtooth through a lowpass? Moog-style basses and plucks? If I would use your style of tests I should to get rid of my favorite plugins, like Massive, Absynth and many others.

I don't know how I should explain the saw tooth -> filter test to you guys. Are you seriously not understanding the merits of this simple test? I am NOT creating sounds with it, I am exploring the sound and behavior of the filter with it!

A saw tooth contains lots of harmonics. It is the ideal signal to send through a filter to see how the filter reacts, to see how the resonance reacts when it hits the fundamental frequency or any multiple of it.

I don't know how much more detailed I can get in the explanation.

Like I said, I have been trying to figure out what I do not like in the synth so that I can give proper, detailed feedback. I've thus narrowed it down to the filter. It is causing something which is undesirable in my opinion. I'm still exploring it but I'm now pretty sure it boils down to that.

Please try not to get offended by my wording. Also note that I put " " quotation marks around the word beginner, trying to clearly tell you that I'm NOT implying that you are a beginner. It's just that your filter responds like a lot of other filters that were not perhaps completely thought through.

As I know you are a sound designer yourself, I'm a bit surprised how you didn't get bothered by the filter.. but then again, looking through the presets, not a single preset uses full resonance, or not even close to full resonance of the 24dB filters. Coincidence?

The filter, like any other part of a synthesizer, is a building block that can be and should be used and abused to create sounds. You've worked hard on creating oscillators that are clean and void of any nasty aliasing. Now I've pointed out that the basic filters are a bit uneven, that the resonance doesn't behave well. Why dismiss this? It's your choice of course.

Cheers!
bManic

[Teksonik]

Do not call me novice, please. I know what I build, I know the sound what I have been looking for, and I know that current VST market has a real lack of such synths. Yes, maybe this is not your cup of tea…

This is the point I've been trying to make....if people want only Saw waves through LP Filters than there a dozens of other synths that have this Territory covered well. There is no sense creating another VA of that type although I must say that Diversion is capable of some lovely crisp analog type sounds and filter sweeps etc....

I'll say it again Diversion has Character that fills a gap that other soft synths have not and I own just about every synth from Albino to Zebra 2.... and it's why Diversion will be my next vsti purchase....

Diversion may not be to everyone's liking but you've created something different and that's one of the hardest tasks to accomplish in this over crowded soft synth market........

[bmanic]

You're missing the point that not all Synthesiszer sounds are about Saws or "Analog"....and I've got a half dozen more years of tweaking on you......

Argh!! You just don't "get it". I'm NOT looking for analogue. I'm looking for the filter to have an even response. Jesus! Is it really this hard to understand the simple saw -> filter test and why so many tweakers start with that?

It's the same thing a chef does when learning how to prepare a new dish. He tastes the individual ingredients to learn how they compose the final meal.

You've been doing commercial synth presets for more than 25 years and do not understand what I'm trying to say here? I find that extremely hard to believe. Sure, everybody has their own way of learning the ins and outs of various synths but surely this must be one of the most basic ways of learning the filter. Or are you telling me you like running a sine wave through the filter to understand how it sounds?

[Teksonik]

I don't know how I should explain the saw tooth -> filter test to you guys. Are you seriously not understanding the merits of this simple test?

Are you seriously not understanding that there are tens of thousands of synthesiszer sounds that have nothing to do with Saws?

But since you insist of equating Synthesiszer with Saw....I've already done a couple of patches with the Diversion demo that use Saws and LP filter sweeps and I think they sound lovely....crisp clear....quality.....they sounddifferent[i/] than other synths that I own and that's the point.

[izonin]

Hmm am I the only one who thinks that it sounds as bad as a 2002 Reaktor ensemble, while consuming 10 times more CPU than most commercial synths?

Yes, you're the only one with Tin ears..............

What do ears have to do with it?

Because you said it "sounds as bad as"....In case you've missed it along the way Ears are those things on the side of the head that allow people to hear if something sounds good or not....yours are apparently filled with a foreign substance....most likely fecal in nature....(ok that last bit wasn't necessary but I couldn't resist )


This is the perfect example of what I'm talking about....if you think this synth sounds so bad why are you still here? State your opinion and then move on......or is the whole idea just to troll or to grace us with your imaginary superior sense of hearing?

I'm still here because of your ridiculous posts. If you don't like my opinion about the synth, just ignore it.

The sound of a synth comes from the code of it's oscillators and filters. I don't need superior ears to hear what algos were used in this one.

[Teksonik]

Argh!! You just don't "get it". I'm NOT looking for analogue. I'm looking for the filter to have an even response. Jesus! Is it really this hard to understand the simple saw -> filter test and why so many tweakers start with that?

Calm down lady you'll pop a vein.........no, you just don't get the concept of "different" so just move on. You don't like Diversion's filters? Fine that's a perfectly legitimate opinion...one I happen to disagree with but legitimate none the less...........so just move on, Diversion is clearly not for you.....try Charlatan instead.........

It's the same thing a chef does when learning how to prepare a new dish. He tastes the individual ingredients to learn how they compose the final meal.

Bad anaolgy but if you must.......not every Chef uses chicken in every dish....here with Diversion we have Filet Mignon. But maybe you don't like beef...then move on to another resturant........

You've been doing commercial synth presets for more than 25 years and do not understand what I'm trying to say here? I find that extremely hard to believe. Sure, everybody has their own way of learning the ins and outs of various synths but surely this must be one of the most basic ways of learning the filter. Or are you telling me you like running a sine wave through the filter to understand how it sounds?

Oh I understand what you are saying I just think your whole premise is narrow minded and flawed......and of course a Sine wave has no harmonics to filter....

[bmanic]

I don't know how I should explain the saw tooth -> filter test to you guys. Are you seriously not understanding the merits of this simple test?

Are you seriously not understanding that there are tens of thousands of synthesiszer sounds that have nothing to do with Saws?

Why do you get so hung up on the fact I use a saw? There is a very good reason for using either a saw or a square (actually both together gives most of the harmonic content needed) to test a filter.

To clarify one last time: I use a saw -> filter combo ONLY to learn HOW the filter SOUNDS.

I am NOT interested in if the saw + filter sounds good.
I am NOT trying to create some usable sound for music.
I am ONLY learning how the filter BEHAVES when it is sweeped through the saw.

The saw wave in this case is used as a TEST signal, just as a single sample impulse is used as a test signal.

With this basic test I can easily come to the conclusion that the behavior of the filters, especially the 24dB one, is uneven and not controlled in a way that I find pleasant. Thus I concluded that most likely the weak link that I perceive as harshness in the synth is due to the filter. That is all. Nothing dramatic about it.

Hope I am finally clear enough.

Cheers!
bManic

[bmanic]

It's the same thing a chef does when learning how to prepare a new dish. He tastes the individual ingredients to learn how they compose the final meal.

Bad anaolgy but if you must.......not every Chef uses chicken in every dish....here with Diversion we have Filet Mignon. But maybe you don't like beef...then move on to another resturant........

Actually, my analogy was perfect. It pretty much confirmed to me that you just didn't get it. Has nothing to do with what a dish can, should or would contain. It has only to do with learning your tools.

Oh well. See you in some other thread. Time to call it a day on this one.

[Teksonik]

I'm still here because of your ridiculous posts. If you don't like my opinion about the synth, just ignore it.

And if you don't like my opinion about you then just ignore it.......and on and on.......

The sound of a synth comes from the code of it's oscillators and filters. I don't need superior ears to hear what algos were used in this one.

And I happen to think Diversion has a wonderful high quality and character.....You don't like it? Then move on....it's clearly not for you.....

[Teksonik]

It's the same thing a chef does when learning how to prepare a new dish. He tastes the individual ingredients to learn how they compose the final meal.

Bad anaolgy but if you must.......not every Chef uses chicken in every dish....here with Diversion we have Filet Mignon. But maybe you don't like beef...then move on to another resturant........

Actually, my analogy was perfect. It pretty much confirmed to me that you just didn't get it. Has nothing to do with what a dish can, should or would contain. It has only to do with learning your tools.

Oh well. See you in some other thread. Time to call it a day on this one.

Yes you'd better retreat before you dig yourself a deeper hole...........get it?

[izonin]

I'm still here because of your ridiculous posts. If you don't like my opinion about the synth, just ignore it.

And if you don't like my opinion about you then just ignore it.......and on and on.......

The sound of a synth comes from the code of it's oscillators and filters. I don't need superior ears to hear what algos were used in this one.

And I happen to think Diversion has a wonderful high quality and character.....You don't like it? Then move on....it's clearly not for you.....

You have an opinion about me?