creating a triad in the key of the music

[kk01]

Hello guyz,

It's kinna challenging for me also considering the fact that I just started music theory and it is creating a triad in the key of the music. You see locating all the major and minor triads on any not is not a problem for me but find the appropriate triad in a particular key is a headache for me.

Lets say for example, if the song in my head is in the key of C, if I was going to create a triad on the scale of C...say D it should be a D minor and not a D major and if I was to create a triad on F it should be an F major right.

Now, I know that for only the C scale but for other scale everything happens to be a major i.e using 4 semitones from the root to find the third and 3 semi tones up again to find the fifth. Then to find the minor triad it's simply the reverse...but everything sounds like either or major triad or a minor triad using this technique and I know there is something I am doing wrong.

Can someone please help...

Regards,
'KK'

PS: I hope the message makes sense

[diijay]

Major Scale goes like this:major I, minor ii, minor iii, major IV, major V, minor VI, diminished VII.

I ii iii IV V vi VII(dim)
C Dm Em F G Am Bdimished

To form the chords just pick one letter(chord) and skip the next one.

Example: for Dm chord, jump E, pick F, jump G, pick A / Dm = D F A / to form a Dm7 chord just add the seventh note of the scale (VII), in C major is B, just add B to the chord. Dm7 = D F A B.

Bdim=pick B,jump C,pick D, jump E, pick F / Bdim = B D F.

[istyle]

To build scales,remembering the semitones from each note

Major scale= C-2semitones->D-2semitones->E -1 semitone->F-2semitones->G-2semitones->A 2semitones>B-1semitone>C
=2-2-1-2-2-2-1


so if you wanna build D major,it goes
D-E-F#-G-A-B-C#
.....

[wrench45us]

This is a very basic concept that may seem foreign at first, but you really have to get this down. It's really not all that difficult -- just takes a while to sink in.
The thing with harmony theory, there always seems to be another level, so building a firm foundation can't be overemphasized. And the whole chord/scale thinking seems to be enjoying a surge in education/practice right now.

[trewq]

You might get an overall understanding if you layout(index)on paper the tone and interval numbers for the major scale and compare with chord formulas for major(1,3,5) and minor(1,b3,5), or whatever chords - takes some of the pain out of memorizing(another way is practice!).

For example there are 12 basic tones overall, 7 of them are used in 7 tone scales like the major scale, which get converted to interval numbers():

1(1), 2, 3(2), 4, 5(3), 6(4), 7, 8(5), 9, 10(6), 11, 12(7)

- can be used for any major scale but using C for example.

2 = 9, 4 = 11, 6 = 13 (equivalent intervals)

so C chords in the C scale are obvious given the chord formulas, but no Db chords for example, cause referenced to Db those interval numbers are: 7 b9 b3 3 b5 b6 b7 (using all flats - sorry!). For D chords in the C major scale its:
b7 1 2 b3 4 5 6. So keep going until get to the B chords in C major, and get a book, or software that shows all the chord and scale formulas.

somebody check my numbers!

[jancivil]

12 tones overall, 7 of them are used in 7 tone scales like the major scale... converted to interval numbers:

1(1), 2, 3(2), 4, 5(3), 6(4), 7, 8(5), 9, 10(6), 11, 12(7)

- can be used for any major scale but using C for example.

2 = 9, 4 = 11, 6 = 13 (equivalent intervals)

so C chords in the C scale are obvious given the chord formulas, but no Db chords for example, cause referenced to Db those interval numbers are: 7 b9 b3 3 b5 b6 b7 (using all flats - sorry!). For D chords in the C major scale its:
b7 1 2 b3 4 5 6. So keep going until get to the B chords in C major, and get a book, or software that shows all the chord and scale formulas.

somebody check my numbers!

ok, I will!

The intervals that make a 7-tone scale are typically given qualifiers per the size of the interval:

minor, major; with diminished and augmented extending that at either end.
or, 'Perfect'. The simplest vibrating intervals in harmony, the unison, the octave (12 semitones above), the fifth and the fourth can be 'Perfect', or not.
Increasing the size of these intervals will give 'augmented', decreasing them will give 'diminished'.

2nds, 3rds, 6ths, and 7ths are not going to be given this designation at any time. These will have the former qualifier.

st = diatonic interval. EG:
1 = a minor second. C to Db.
2 = a major second. C to D. Note the fact of a consecutive letter name for 'a second'.
3 = a minor third. C to Eb; OR! if C to D#, this is an augmented second. Note the difference in letter names. *Spelling* difference.
4 = a major third. C to E.
5 = a Perfect fourth. C to F.
6 = an augmented fourth, C to F#; or a diminished fifth, C to Gb.
7 = a Perfect fifth. C to G.
8 = an augmented fifth, C to G#, or a minor sixth, C to Ab.
9 = a major sixth, C to A, or a diminished seventh, C to Bbb (double flat).
10 = a minor seventh, C to Bb; or an augmented sixth, C to A#.
11= a major seventh, C to B.

the reasons for the optional ones in this list are harmonic; there are frequently used chords that use those intervals in a meaningful way. The aug. 2nd more typically as a ninth in a chord having the major third.

[trewq]

12 tones overall, 7 of them are used in 7 tone scales like the major scale... converted to interval numbers:

1(1), 2, 3(2), 4, 5(3), 6(4), 7, 8(5), 9, 10(6), 11, 12(7)

- can be used for any major scale but using C for example.

2 = 9, 4 = 11, 6 = 13 (equivalent intervals)

so C chords in the C scale are obvious given the chord formulas, but no Db chords for example, cause referenced to Db those interval numbers are: 7 b9 b3 3 b5 b6 b7 (using all flats - sorry!). For D chords in the C major scale its:
b7 1 2 b3 4 5 6. So keep going until get to the B chords in C major, and get a book, or software that shows all the chord and scale formulas.

somebody check my numbers!

ok, I will!

The intervals that make a 7-tone scale are typically given qualifiers per the size of the interval:

minor, major; with diminished and augmented extending that at either end.
or, 'Perfect'. The simplest vibrating intervals in harmony, the unison, the octave (12 semitones above), the fifth and the fourth can be 'Perfect', or not.
Increasing the size of these intervals will give 'augmented', decreasing them will give 'diminished'.

2nds, 3rds, 6ths, and 7ths are not going to be given this designation at any time. These will have the former qualifier.

st = diatonic interval. EG:
1 = a minor second. C to Db.
2 = a major second. C to D. Note the fact of a consecutive letter name for 'a second'.
3 = a minor third. C to Eb; OR! if C to D#, this is an augmented second. Note the difference in letter names. *Spelling* difference.
4 = a major third. C to E.
5 = a Perfect fourth. C to F.
6 = an augmented fourth, C to F#; or a diminished fifth, C to Gb.
7 = a Perfect fifth. C to G.
8 = an augmented fifth, C to G#, or a minor sixth, C to Ab.
9 = a major sixth, C to A, or a diminished seventh, C to Bbb (double flat).
10 = a minor seventh, C to Bb; or an augmented sixth, C to A#.
11= a major seventh, C to B.

the reasons for the optional ones in this list are harmonic; there are frequently used chords that use those intervals in a meaningful way. The aug. 2nd more typically as a ninth in a chord having the major third.

Hi Jancivil,

Yah, I think thats been my downfall all along! - not using the propur teminology


But I should probly take a course.

But no, I was just trying to get an idea across - and maybe I should call them formula numbers instead of interval numbers?

[jancivil]

you have "5 (3)" and "6 (4)" and end with "12 (7)" so apparently you're counting the tonic note as '1' when it's really 0.

5 semitones is a perfect fourth for instance...

[trewq]

you have "5 (3)" and "6 (4)" and end with "12 (7)" so apparently you're counting the tonic note as '1' when it's really 0.

5 semitones is a perfect fourth for instance...

depends on what you mean by 1 and 0. Mode formulas is what I was getting at when I talked about indexing the major scale formula, which answers his question about how to find the chords in a key.

[Added]: but I get what you mean. Interval distances starts at 0, but I've always taken the tonic or root as 1, since I use formulas, and I've never counted interval distances for chords that I can recall, just shapes: (guitar).

[jancivil]

C3 to C3 is a distance of zero (the musical term is 'unison', meaning the correspondence between the two is 1:1). You presented an erroneous list with 5 st. as though a third etc. out of that. I'm just interested in providing a useful list for people.

I know without thinking that eg., 9 st. = a major sixth. If I want 'up a major 6th' from a note in the piano roll I hit the up arrow 9 times. I also know what that interval sounds like without testing it. Knowledge of intervals is crucial as a building block for proceeding with music.

[trewq]

C3 to C3 is a distance of zero (the musical term is 'unison', meaning the correspondence between the two is 1:1). You presented an erroneous list with 5 st. as though a third etc. out of that. I'm just interested in providing a useful list for people.

I know without thinking that eg., 9 st. = a major sixth. If I want 'up a major 6th' from a note in the piano roll I hit the up arrow 9 times. I also know what that interval sounds like without testing it. Knowledge of intervals is crucial as a building block for proceeding with music.

ok, I think there has been a misunderstanding. I never meant to imply that my list was better than your's. Moreover, I thought I made clear that I never meant to discuss interval distance or count semitones, but only to show that mode formulas can be worked out on paper, and that they can be compared to chord formulas for an overall view of how chords are related to scales - I thought I'd share cause its a great concept(not mine!:lol:).

But since we're on the subject, I have no idea what you mean by your statement 'You presented an erroneous list with 5 st. as though a third etc. out of that.'
What is 'st.', 'as though a third'?, ect..? Can you elaborate for my own benefit (in understanding)- added:lol:. Thanks!

added - never mind, I got it! Count ciphering starts at 0, formulas start at 1, obviously. But its not erroneous to pair 12 tone to 7 tone scale formula numbers like I did!

[dandmkirkwood]

A triad progression is simply a scale moving in harmony. Start with the tonic then add the 3rd and 5th. As the tonic progresses up the scale, the harmonies should also move up the same scale in harmony. This is all a chord progression is. A basic chord is a triad with a few octives added. Eg. Cmaj triad: C,E,G. Open C: C,E,G,C,E. Same notes just more octives. The reason why chords in the key of C work is because all the notes in the chords are harmonizing notes of the C major scale. Pretty cool hey? Hope this helps.