KVR Audio

kv331 · Post by **kv331** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:46 am

Ingonator wrote: BTW i like how the additive synthesis works in ImpOSCar 1 and 2. It only got a few harmonics but it still works nicely. Same for the additive oscillator in Synthmaster 2.5.
Ingo

Since you are NOT limited to choosing "Sine" waves in those additive oscillators, you can get really nice tones, chords, etc... by combining 8 different waveforms (each of which could be a sine, tri, sqr, saw, pulse, noise, sample or wavetable)

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:54 am

kv331 wrote:
Ingonator wrote: BTW i like how the additive synthesis works in ImpOSCar 1 and 2. It only got a few harmonics but it still works nicely. Same for the additive oscillator in Synthmaster 2.5.
Ingo
Since you are NOT limited to choosing "Sine" waves in those additive oscillators, you can get really nice tones, chords, etc... by combining 8 different waveforms (each of which could be a sine, tri, sqr, saw, pulse, noise, sample or wavetable)

Agreed. For example you could "abuse" the additive oscillators in Synthmaster 2.5 to create a "Hypersaw" from detuned Sawtooth waveforms when all partials are set to the same harmonic.

Ingo

tony tony chopper · Post by **tony tony chopper** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:55 am

i know the difference of subtractive and additive

Sure but Harmor wasn't designed like a classic additive synth. It's designed as a subtractive synth, with an additive engine, and an additional image-synthesis section.

What i found confusing is the editor for the harmonics which in other synths is a more or less long row of bars and e.g. in Alchemy you could edit each of those bars.

row of bars or points, it's pretty much the same. In step edit mode you get the same as a row of bars, but being able to cover several harmonics using a curved segment is much more powerful.
Besides you can also edit images in an image editor.

Are those not working in the current demo?

they're working perfectly, surely harmonizer & prism make a huge difference

BTW i like how the additive synthesis works in ImpOSCar 1 and 2. It only got a few harmonics but it still works nicely. Same for the additive oscillator in Synthmaster 2.5.

is it real additive synthesis morphable realtime, though?
I mean, Sytrus too has such an additive editor but isn't an additive synth.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:07 pm

tony tony chopper wrote:
i know the difference of subtractive and additive
Sure but Harmor wasn't designed like a classic additive synth. It's designed as a subtractive synth, with an additive engine, and an additional image-synthesis section.

Alchemy has an additive engine inside a Subtractive synth too and Cameleon 5000 had additional filters too. Same about the famous Kawai K5000. Are those three no additive synth then?
Which synths are really pure additive synths anyway, except Hammond and Church organs maybe?

About image-synthesis:
Like already mentioned this was already included in Camel Audio Cameleon 5000 and it's successor Alchemy (same about resynthesis).

Ingo

Nighthawk77 · Post by **Nighthawk77** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:31 pm

yairhol wrote:
tony tony chopper wrote:Harmor shouldn't have a "sound", you get access to every single harmonic. (even though the included presets might have a sound)

mmmm, its magic!

tony tony chopper · Post by **tony tony chopper** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:11 pm

Alchemy has an additive engine inside a Subtractive synth too and Cameleon 5000 had additional filters too. Same about the famous Kawai K5000. Are those three no additive synth then?

AFAIK those are hybrid, and have an additive synth part, but do they have filters/phasers/other effects working inside the additive engine, or rather on its time-domain output? Not the same thing at all.

I'm not saying that additive synthesis is anything new btw, all the theories are centuries old. And to give credit to those before us: I found out later that Virsyn's Poseidon had a similar architecture (on the paper). And then you have NI's Razor as well (which came up after Harmless), those are the 2 that have similar architectures, & I believe this is the future of synths.

Which synths are really pure additive synths anyway

It's not about being pure or BS like that, it's about what you can do when the processing units are in the freq domain.
In which synth can you draw your own filter shape/curve, resonance shape/curve, automate the filter/resonance width precisely, shift the resonance (which is in fact another filter) over the filter's freq?
& in which synth can you automate the detuning of each harmonic separately?

yairhol · Post by **yairhol** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:15 pm

How many presets come with the Harmor?

tony tony chopper · Post by **tony tony chopper** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:17 pm

around 200, but you can check the demo

Lotuzia · Post by **Lotuzia** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:10 pm

tony tony chopper wrote:

BTW i like how the additive synthesis works in ImpOSCar 1 and 2. It only got a few harmonics but it still works nicely. Same for the additive oscillator in Synthmaster 2.5.
is it real additive synthesis morphable realtime, though?
I mean, Sytrus too has such an additive editor but isn't an additive synth.

No the Imp' editor is static and very basic, meaning its also very fast to use, a la Sytrus so .......

erickUO · Post by **erickUO** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:21 pm

Harmor has more interesting features for me but the GUI is too confusing. On the other hand, i like Diversion's sounds and GUI but it consume too much CPU. If i have both, i don't think i'll use them often

Personally, with the same budget i prefer Nuklear

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:26 pm

erickUO wrote: Personally, with the same budget i prefer Nuklear

Finally another Nuklear fan, yeah!!

BTW i just started a discussion (with the dev) about the price of Nuklear so let's see.

Ingo

audiosabre · Post by **audiosabre** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:56 pm

Harmor, most definitely. Although Diversion is interesting I much prefer gol's work. He has a decent track record and Image-Line have set a fair price, imo.

I don't really think you can compare Harmor to Camel Audio's excellent synths. Not only is the approach different, but so are the synthesis engines and methodologies. I think Harmor's approach will yield some interesting sounds that will be hard (even impossible) to produce in Alchemy. For a start, Alchemy has a focus on VA synthesis, whereas Harmor doesn't even venture into those sonics...(though is quite capable of biting sounds, albeit digital)

I reckon you have to have a keen interest in synthesis/sound design to even comprehend the possibilities of Harmor. Otherwise you'll just be judging the talent of the preset designers. I don't think sound designers are in any doubt as to the power of this beast

Being an FL Studio user, I also reap the benefits of host integration

adenozin · Post by **adenozin** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:05 pm

Just my 2 cents :

I see everywhere that alchemy and other synths already offers image editing and other spectral goodness but while I am a huge fan of Camel's beast, Armor resynthesis is just way superior.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:46 pm

adenozin wrote:Just my 2 cents :

I see everywhere that alchemy and other synths already offers image editing and other spectral goodness but while I am a huge fan of Camel's beast, Armor resynthesis is just way superior.

how so?

LeVzi · Post by **LeVzi** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:16 pm

Diversion is going 64bit apparantly, that's a big selling point for me now. Although I am sure Harmor and the other IL plugs will port to 64bit when Delphi finally goes 64bit, which is planned for the end of this summer.

Harmor vs. Diversion