ValhallaRoom 1.5.1 Released. New Electric Blue GUI

[valhallasound]

I'm liking the new modes. No offense Sean, but I never use the original 'bright' types. The dark stuff is just more my style. So, I say go darker still!

I would love to have a mode that sound like, say, a wood cabin with some rugs around. A smaller space where the echos die down quickly, and very muted highs. Earthy and organic, but dim.

Use Narcissus, smaller Late Size, set HIGH CUT to 1500-2000 Hz, and go from there. Also set Late High Mult to 0.1x, and Late High Xover to a fairly low value. This will darken things right up.

I remember some CCRMA guy modeled reverberation in a forest a few years back. The tricky part is that there is no feedback component to the sound. In a room, the sound bounces back and forth repeatedly off the walls. In a forest, the sound bounces from a tree back to the listener, but the odds of that sound bouncing from tree to tree are slim, due to the somewhat random distribution of trees. So the sound is mainly first-order reflections off of trees.

Sean Costello

[Sampleconstruct]

I'm liking the new modes. No offense Sean, but I never use the original 'bright' types. The dark stuff is just more my style. So, I say go darker still!

I would love to have a mode that sound like, say, a wood cabin with some rugs around. A smaller space where the echos die down quickly, and very muted highs. Earthy and organic, but dim.

Use Narcissus, smaller Late Size, set HIGH CUT to 1500-2000 Hz, and go from there. Also set Late High Mult to 0.1x, and Late High Xover to a fairly low value. This will darken things right up.

I remember some CCRMA guy modeled reverberation in a forest a few years back. The tricky part is that there is no feedback component to the sound. In a room, the sound bounces back and forth repeatedly off the walls. In a forest, the sound bounces from a tree back to the listener, but the odds of that sound bouncing from tree to tree are slim, due to the somewhat random distribution of trees. So the sound is mainly first-order reflections off of trees.

Sean Costello

Go make a Treeverb then - hurry up!

[valhallasound]

I'm liking the new modes. No offense Sean, but I never use the original 'bright' types. The dark stuff is just more my style. So, I say go darker still!

I would love to have a mode that sound like, say, a wood cabin with some rugs around. A smaller space where the echos die down quickly, and very muted highs. Earthy and organic, but dim.

Use Narcissus, smaller Late Size, set HIGH CUT to 1500-2000 Hz, and go from there. Also set Late High Mult to 0.1x, and Late High Xover to a fairly low value. This will darken things right up.

I remember some CCRMA guy modeled reverberation in a forest a few years back. The tricky part is that there is no feedback component to the sound. In a room, the sound bounces back and forth repeatedly off the walls. In a forest, the sound bounces from a tree back to the listener, but the odds of that sound bouncing from tree to tree are slim, due to the somewhat random distribution of trees. So the sound is mainly first-order reflections off of trees.

Sean Costello

Go make a Treeverb then - hurry up!

Forests are feedforward. Big long feedforward things, with lots of specific complexity = great candidate for convolution.

Sean Costello

[valhallasound]

I just finished few presets more and I have to say that Narcissus algo. overperform PCM Hall algo. You can find this preset in this folder. Sounds wider and more live to my ears.

Are you talking about the Concert Hall algorithm, or the "Hall" algorithm from the PCM bundle?

The PCM Concert Hall was supposed to be based on the 224, but there was a problem: Lexicon lost all of their 224, 224XL, and 480L code/development machines during the move from Massachusetts to Utah. According to Michael Carnes (IIRC), the PCM Concert Hall was based on a drawing that Barry Blesser made about 15 years ago:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/3931509-post38.html

The late reverb of Narcissus is probably the closest that ValhallaRoom gets to the original 224 Concert Hall algorithm. It isn't all that close to the specifics of the 224 Concert Hall, but compared to the other algorithms, it is a lot closer.

Interestingly enough, Narcissus is also the least complex of the ValhallaRoom algorithms, by a long shot. The Nostromo late reverb is about twice as complex as that found in Narcissus, and has far more processing, and a much longer total delay length, than the 224-era Lexicon algorithms. The late reverb of Narcissus could run on the original 224, with a few cycles to spare. The Early section wouldn't fit on there - the early Lexicons just used a few series allpass delays to increase the echo density at the inputs of their reverbs.

Sean Costello

[jonahs]

Would you mind providing a mailing list for Ubermod? As a VR customer I would not mind being informed via that email address, but others might?

Interesting that these new modes have moved towards fantasy names. Sometimes I find those easier to relate to. For me, chamber is more evocative of Edgar Allan Poe or Sister Ray rather than any physical environment. Ironic that the new modes are are space references where there isn't any sound.

In space no one can hear you scream.

Unless they are literary references and I expect a Pequod mode next!

I just started work on an homage to PiL's drum sounds on their Flowers of Romance album and I guess Phil Collins by association.

I need to track down that PiL album. I only have Second Edition. Having a non-Phil Collins reference for the Phil Collins drum sound would be useful.

It's part of "Plastic Box" which collects most of their work. It's a very live sounding record. From a sound design/reverb perspective I find it inspiring.

Haha, you could legitimately call music purchases business expenses. File under: "research material". Going to see live music could be "studying the acoustics".

BTW, there needs to be a neo-preppy post-punk revival band named the Flowers of Bromance.

I wonder if any studio would try to recreate the stairwell at Headley Grange.

It's funny you mention this because my favorite track on the PiL album "Four Enclosed Walls" has Martin Atkins doing his best take on John Bonham!

There aren't even many algorithmic takes on these kinds of spaces. Stuff like silos, domes, stairwells, amphitheatres, stadiums and kivas.

I feel like big reverbs imply sacred, ritualistic and profound connotations, but are often perceived as amateur(especially when digital). I'm not sure what it means that the biggest reverbs most are likely to hear are at sports arenas.

Haven't got there on the drum sound

Have you tried just using the Early section, with a longer Early Size? Set DEPTH to 0.0, and use the Early reverb to get a "nonlinear" reverb sound.

Unfortunately for me, it has more to do with my drum sounds, micing and mixing.

I "cheated" and ripped the audio tracks to look at. Crazy dynamic range. Emulating that helped. I dunno, I think dynamic range might be why most music I enjoy was "before my time".

Are there any plugins that offer a sidechain-triggered gate? This would simulate the actual process used to get the Phil Collins sound.

I'm using the noise gates in logic and reaper. Both let you do this. I like using a gate for the triggering options and finer control of the volume envelope.

Replace the reverb with a pitch shifter, shifting down part of a semitone and with lots of feedback, and you have the drum sound of "Low" and "The Idiot." The gate is critical to get that abrupt stop to the decay.

Ahh, wow, interesting! I especially like "The Idiot". Always thought that was a drum machine....I'll have to try it with synth drums to emphasize certain harmonics! I was already starting to play with feedback because I found an interview with the PiL engineer (about halfway down) where he talked about harmonizing the drums and a track that used the sound of a watch pitch shifted, delayed and fed back.

Related, FreqEcho is proving to be very useful too!

Well, that actually might break things, in the sense that every time you change reverb modes, the delay lines are "zeroed out" (i.e. filled with zeros) to avoid weird transition sounds. This causes a bit of a CPU hit. But if it works for you, go for it. You have been warned.

Oh no, I'm simply loading up multiple instances of VR in parallel, screwing around with a the phasing/mono on each and moving between these!

Anyway, looking forward to the new modes!

[valhallasound]

For me, chamber is more evocative of Edgar Allan Poe or Sister Ray rather than any physical environment

"Sister Ray"?





Sean Costello

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

hurry up and finish this beta testing, already (or throw me a beta 'bone')....i want me some 'darker'

[xtrax]

Are you talking about the Concert Hall algorithm, or the "Hall" algorithm from the PCM bundle?

I wrote exactly "Hall" , I never used Concert Hall it sounds really bad.

The late reverb of Narcissus is probably the closest that ValhallaRoom gets to the original 224 Concert Hall algorithm. It isn't all that close to the specifics of the 224 Concert Hall, but compared to the other algorithms, it is a lot closer.

Yes, Narcissus can match color exactly to Lex PCM, I tried Nostromo and it is different in color.

[valhallasound]

hurry up and finish this beta testing, already (or throw me a beta 'bone')....i want me some 'darker'

Send me your email in a PM, and I'll get you set up.

Sean Costello

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

hurry up and finish this beta testing, already (or throw me a beta 'bone')....i want me some 'darker'

Send me your email in a PM, and I'll get you set up.

Sean Costello

haha, you star !!

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

perhaps, i should 'pm' you...in my haste, i sent the message to myself....what a dick !!

[Bronto Scorpio]

perhaps, i should 'pm' you...in my haste, i sent the message to myself....what a dick !!

Haha! Good to know that I'm not the only one who does that. Happens to me all the time

Cheers
Dennis

[valhallasound]

Are you talking about the Concert Hall algorithm, or the "Hall" algorithm from the PCM bundle?

I wrote exactly "Hall" , I never used Concert Hall it sounds really bad.

Well, the 224 and PCM70 Concert Hall algorithms are beautiful. Give them a try if you get a chance - they sound very nice. Fairly sparse initial echo density, but a very open sound.

Yes, Narcissus can match color exactly to Lex PCM, I tried Nostromo and it is different in color.

That's really interesting to me. Honestly, I doubt that Narcissus is that close, internally, to the Hall algorithm from the PCM. If it is like the LXP Hall, it is one of the "later" Lexicon algorithms, while Narcissus is closer to the earliest Lexicon algorithms (and not really that close, but for the purposes of discussion it is close enough). Convergent sonic evolution, I guess.

Sean Costello

[valhallasound]

Would you mind providing a mailing list for Ubermod? As a VR customer I would not mind being informed via that email address, but others might?

I need to set up some sort of opt-in mailing list. I'll be posting about it on my blog and the forums, but a mailing list would be far more convenient for finding out exactly when things are released.

Replace the reverb with a pitch shifter, shifting down part of a semitone and with lots of feedback, and you have the drum sound of "Low" and "The Idiot." The gate is critical to get that abrupt stop to the decay.

Ahh, wow, interesting! I especially like "The Idiot". Always thought that was a drum machine....I'll have to try it with synth drums to emphasize certain harmonics! I was already starting to play with feedback because I found an interview with the PiL engineer (about halfway down) where he talked about harmonizing the drums and a track that used the sound of a watch pitch shifted, delayed and fed back.

The H910 Harmonizer feedback, through a gate, made some very synthetic drum sounds out of live drums on the Bowie/Pop albums from 1976. "Funtime" - that is a snare drum, but it sounds like a Synare. You really hear it on Low. "Nightclubbing," on the other hand, uses a drum machine. However, it certainly wasn't unheard of to use extensive signal processing to try to make acoustic drums sound more like a drum machine. On "Obscured by Clouds," Pink Floyd used a combination of physical damping on the drums (blanket in the bass drum, presumably a wallet on the snare, the usual tricks that I really need to learn), and noise gates set for very abrupt decays, to emulate the sound of an early 1970's drum machine.

Related, FreqEcho is proving to be very useful too!

Similar trick to the H910 feedback trick, different type of shifting. A noise gate would be useful here as well.

Anyway, looking forward to the new modes!

I'm still working on the pesky AU Validation bug. I think I have a possible solution (a pre-flight script in the installer that deletes the existing .component files before installing the new ones), but non-Valhalla things have taken almost all of my time in the last few days.

Sean Costello

[Sampleconstruct]

Would you mind providing a mailing list for Ubermod? As a VR customer I would not mind being informed via that email address, but others might?

Try Mail Chimp, I've been using it for a few weeks now on patchpool and it's great - and free up to a certain amount of mails sent...