Yellow Jackets

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http://www.thdelectronics.com/product_p ... acket.html

I'm embarrassed that I didn't learn of these until recently

Since then I have done a lot of research and I have been in contact with THD for some questions. I didn't post anything about this earlier because I wanted to get a better understanding of them before talking about them.

I'm very curious as to what others may have to say, has anyone tried these?

[knockman]

I'm not surprised you knew nothing about them really. First, it wasn't the best comedy to grace British television (though by no means the worst), and second, it never struck me as having much trans-atlantic appeal.



Still, Hi De Hi!

[trimph1]

http://www.thdelectronics.com/product_p ... acket.html

I'm embarrassed that I didn't learn of these until recently

Since then I have done a lot of research and I have been in contact with THD for some questions. I didn't post anything about this earlier because I wanted to get a better understanding of them before talking about them.

I'm very curious as to what others may have to say, has anyone tried these?

I've used them before...they really are quite useful for those particular tubes mentioned...and they do change the amps characteristics as well. Easy to install. Just follow the instructions and you're good to go!

[susiwong]

http://www.thdelectronics.com/product_p ... acket.html

I'm embarrassed that I didn't learn of these until recently

Since then I have done a lot of research and I have been in contact with THD for some questions. I didn't post anything about this earlier because I wanted to get a better understanding of them before talking about them.

I'm very curious as to what others may have to say, has anyone tried these?

They've been around forever.
Heard them in a few amps, didn't like them too much.
Certainly a working compromise, but neither as good as the original setup nor as a dedicated EL84 amp.
The only combi I recall sounding kinda decent was a Twin with 2x 6L6 and 2x YJs, but then, it lost its typical big, clean vibe and got a little better in the OD dept, still not a real alternative to a Marshall, Mesa, Peavey etc.

Maybe there is a great combination somewhere, I didn't find it.
Ymmv,
susiwong

Similar with stuff like the Soldano HotMod or any other generic mod kits, nothing like an amp done right from the ground up.

[DrApostropheX]

Russ Ferrante is an amazing keyboard player (jump ahead to his solo starting at around 4 minutes).

[Hink]

http://www.thdelectronics.com/product_p ... acket.html

I'm embarrassed that I didn't learn of these until recently

Since then I have done a lot of research and I have been in contact with THD for some questions. I didn't post anything about this earlier because I wanted to get a better understanding of them before talking about them.

I'm very curious as to what others may have to say, has anyone tried these?

They've been around forever.
Heard them in a few amps, didn't like them too much.
Certainly a working compromise, but neither as good as the original setup nor as a dedicated EL84 amp.
The only combi I recall sounding kinda decent was a Twin with 2x 6L6 and 2x YJs, but then, it lost its typical big, clean vibe and got a little better in the OD dept, still not a real alternative to a Marshall, Mesa, Peavey etc.

Maybe there is a great combination somewhere, I didn't find it.
Ymmv,
susiwong

Similar with stuff like the Soldano HotMod or any other generic mod kits, nothing like an amp done right from the ground up.

well this is one of few negative reviews from probably close to 50 I read but the only one that complains about the tone. Were they installed for pentode or triode operation? (this makes a HUGE difference as you know) Were the amps cathode or fixed bias?

The only other complaints I read were all the same thing, people who had 50 watt amps didn't hear much of a change in volume when dropping it down to 20 watts and these were people wanting to use them for bedroom use. But of course we know that if you're thinking 2o watts wont be loud you're quite mistaken.

However every single review raves about the tone and how good the class A sounds. Given we have totally different views on tone I'm not surprised you didn't like them. I do not agree at all on your comment of generic mods (or why you added it here) but that's just me and as an old car dude there isn't much that couldn't convince me that stock parts are rarely as good as after market parts but again that's just how I am. I like to mod things

I see this as a mod that works with many amps and can be changed from amp to amp in seconds. It's not a mod per se because if you do not like it you unplug the tube (and disconnect the ground wire if the amp is not fixed but cathode biased). Of course I would be using it with the boogie which does not require the need for the ground wire.
Thanks for the post susiwong, it was very helpful

[Hink]

http://www.thdelectronics.com/product_p ... acket.html

I'm embarrassed that I didn't learn of these until recently

Since then I have done a lot of research and I have been in contact with THD for some questions. I didn't post anything about this earlier because I wanted to get a better understanding of them before talking about them.

I'm very curious as to what others may have to say, has anyone tried these?

I've used them before...they really are quite useful for those particular tubes mentioned...and they do change the amps characteristics as well. Easy to install. Just follow the instructions and you're good to go!

Thanx trimph, that's the general feel I get from those in the know...because of getting this diy forum here I have joined quite a few others and this was not the first place I asked this question. (I'm sure you get my point about after market car parts) The change in the characteristics is exactly what I am after and echoed by many because it's not really a mod, does no damage and can be undone and done to another amp in seconds.I have a duaghter's education to worry about, I have a family to support and I cannot afford every amp I like, but opening up options like this is a good thing and I dont have to spend thousands on an amp to do it

I suspect I will be ordering a set sometime in the future, but YJ is not the only such converters...but I do like the THD name and the conversations I have had with THD have been vry informative with no sales pressure. I did get direct answers to my questions. I read one review of the 'tad tonebones' (another company of course) that after 1.5 to 2 years the tonebones started smoking. The guy knew what he was doing, took them apart and found that those were made cheaply and was able to repair them and describes how to.

So I am thinking THD Yellow Jackets are the best way to go

[susiwong]

I don't think I ever played a real Class A amp except for single ended designs, one of the most misunderstood and misused marketing terms with tube amps.
There are some pretty good articles on the web explaining the details, essential reading though admittedly a bit over my head to put to real world use, but one thing's for sure, neither are Voxes, Matchless, BadCat & Co true Class A nor an amp with those generic power reduction switches.
Never checked with a tech if the YJs are an exception, all I can tell you is how they sounded.
- obviously volume loss is not too dramatic, headroom and "bigness" loss are quite noticeable however
Amps I tested them in included
- that SF 100W Twin I mentioned above
- a 2204 which purred like a castrated tomcat with the YJs,
- a Rivera era Deluxe which was kinda usable with the YJs, but it sounded pretty ugly stock before too, not anywhere in the ballpark of a real Deluxe Reverb with either tubes
- a 6L6 equipped Caliber 50 which ( with the YJs) couldn't hold a candle to its 4xEL84 brother, that's when I lost all interest ...
- and don't forget I'm a huge EL84 fan myself, got four EL84 amps atm and used to own / have access to maybe 20 more over the years ...

A good amp is a complex system, changing out one single element is likely to disturb the balance more than help ime.

But don't take my word, try for yourself, ymmv.
susiwong

[Hink]

I don't think I ever played a real Class A amp except for single ended designs, one of the most misunderstood and misused marketing terms with tube amps.
There are some pretty good articles on the web explaining the details, essential reading though admittedly a bit over my head to put to real world use, but one thing's for sure, neither are Voxes, Matchless, BadCat & Co Class A nor those generic power reduction switches.
Never checked with a tech if the YJs are an exception, all I can tell you is how they sounded.
- obviously volume loss is not too dramatic, headroom and "bigness" loss are quite noticeable however
Amps included
- that SF 100W Twin I mentioned above
- a 2204 which purred like a castrated tomcat with the YJs,
- a Rivera era Deluxe which was kinda usable with the YJs, but it sounded pretty ugly stock before too, not anywhere in the ballpark of a real Deluxe Reverb with either tubes
- a 6L6 equipped Caliber 50 which ( with the YJs) couldn't hold a candle to its 4xEL84 brother, that's when I lost all interest ...
- and don't forget I'm a huge EL84 fan myself, got four EL84 amps atm and used to own / have access to maybe 20 more over the years ...

A good amp is a complex system, changing out one single element is likely to disturb the balance more than help ime.

But don't take my word, try for yourself, ymmv.
susiwong

I will probably try them for myself because like I said you and differ very much on tone, I'm willing to take a risk and I am not afraid of being or admitting I'm wrong (100 dollars for a lesson learned whether it's good or bad is a good investment to me and I have been assured that they can not damage your amp)

I will say that one of the smartest engineers I have ever met in my life (and happen to be lucky to have as a father) has echoed the sentiment of many others I have talked to over 4 decades about amps...a tube amp is a very basic design and not a complex system at all unless it's mucked up with a lot of solidstate add-ons. This is why you see many handwired tube amps and not so many handwired solidstate amps. It's also why back in the days of the soviet union that many interesting tube amps came from USSR (like sovtek, red bear etc). You do not need to be an engineer to build one, in fact some eletronic knowledge (and being able to read a schematic), a bit of research and confidence is all you need if you are electronically inclined...which I am. YMMV but that's okay

I

[susiwong]

Just give them back if you don't like them.

And re tube amps - it's like with food, the devil is in the details.
There are huge differences, recipe, ingredients and how to properly treat and combine them ...
Why else are there so few really good sounding amps available, and most are not exactly cheap
And it's not PTP wiring that makes the sonic difference compared to PCB, you'll hardly hear that, PTP done right is just more reliable and nicer to work on.
Those Russian amps were basic Marshall copies with cheap components and sometimes different power tubes, granted, they sounded better than the cheap channel switchers or hybrids of the day, no comparison to real Plexis or JMPs though ime.
Nothing too original about them except for the names ...

Ymmv,
susiwong

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Why else are there so few really good sounding amps available, and most are not exactly cheap

(Res ipsa loquitur)





Edit: I never ever said that handwired amps sound better, please do not put words in my mouth

[susiwong]

Edit: I never ever said that handwired amps sound better, please do not put words in my mouth

The discussion was about YJs and their sound, all I did was tell about my personal experience with these things like requested, you introduced the handwired thing.
Cheers,
susiwong

[Hink]

Edit: I never ever said that handwired amps sound better, please do not put words in my mouth

The discussion was about YJs and their sound, all I did was tell about my personal experience with these things like requested, you introduced the handwired thing.
Cheers,
susiwong

yes as a response to you telling me how complex tube amps are, not about tone. If you took that out of context that's on you, not me...it was quite clear that is what I was talking about is it not?

But like what I quoted you made your point quite clear, I treasure your friendship (which is very, very true...you are indeed a good friend and a friend I know I can depend on) but when you say things as opinionated as

Why else are there so few really good sounding amps available, and most are not exactly cheap

it makes it difficult for me to relate to your opinion (though I would never close the door on your advice and opinions). Now I will go play through my cheap little frenzel and my cheap guitars with just as much pride as you do through your perceived better gear, whether anyone else likes how it sounds will not take away from the pleasure that is the very lifeblood of my existence and will be until I die.

Don't take that wrong, the things that matter to you are just as important as the things that matter to me even if they are polar opposites. IMHO that is what the term you brought to us YMMV means, I may speak out about my not buying names, I may speak out against companies that I feel overcharge and exploit us but I would never be so presumptuous as to tell someone else that my way is right for them. The above quoted statement is true for you and probably true for many others but not for everyone. I know you hate to hear this and it's not about talent..it's about pleasure and personal satisfaction, it's not the gear that makes the player, it's the player makes the gear (sound good of course, not physically making the gear)

All the best

edit BTW I meant to mention this, I very rarely return gear over buyer remorse. Someone who use to be very close to me use to return everything. I have seen him banned from radio shack as a kid because of this and seen MF and AMS both stop doing business with him because of this. When I was a salesman it was a killer for some people, the end of the month comes and you're going to get your commission then you see your returns that zap your payday. I consider it very disrespectful to return something because I didn't like it. If there is a flaw, damage, I was misled by a salesman or something similar I will return the product. However if I buy it and it isn't what I wanted that's on me...but I do understand that is atypical

[susiwong]

yawn ... all roads lead to Rome, don't they ?
Get over it, nobody's attacking you or your Frenzel.
You asked for opinions about YJ, I happen to have investigated that topic years ago and posted my results.
Maybe not what you wanted to hear, but definitely what I heard when testing.

And re returning gear I don't get along with - I'm completely open about that option to the store, nobody minds at all.
My local store trusts me enough to take home any $5000+ guitar, amp or whatever over the weekend on my word alone, they know they'll get it back with fresh strings and a decent setup if I don't buy it, and in case of any damage I caused I'll just pay for the repair or keep the thing, where's the problem ?
They sold me lots of gear that way over the years, and sold even more based on my recommendations to colleagues ...
Win win situation.
And the mailorder companies I do business with openly promote 30 days money back, well knowing they'd lose the lion's share of their business to local stores if they didn't, I don't overdo it, so what on earth should be unethical about that ?

Can we now return to the topic you yorself set for this thread, please, or simply forget about it ?

Peace,
susiwong

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I knew what you were going to say long before I posted about the and what I want to hear is an unbiased opinion. You didn't like it...got it

edit: please dont miss what I put in bold RELATE, we come from two different perspectives, I do not have a problem with it but I cannot relate to you opinions because I will never have all the gear you have. Seeing how you have gear I might only dream of (not really at this stage of my life though) you cannot relate to my perspective. It doesn't make either one of us the bad guy and it doesn't change my opinion of you as friend and that's all that matters.