Vertigo vs Harmor vs Alchemy

[bmanic]

Another example.. this time resynthesizing a soundscape from Alchemy.

Weather by mood, captured

First part is alchemy.. everything else is Harmor. Sorry again about the noise bursts and glitches. My laptop can't handle Harmor at it's full quality.

Cheers!
bManic

[bmanic]

Jesus Christ...what a chaos!

But i agree...thats pretty darn impressive!

Would be cool to hear that via Vertigo.

(bmanic, why dont you grab the demo and enlighten us?)

Naah, ain't got the time nor patience to try multiple demos.

PS: Juicy bassdrum. Liked it very much.

I think it's the default kick drum in FL Studio.. and yeah, it's badass.

[himalaya]

I can hear it too, but in this example there are other more important things to look at, things you keep ignoring.

See, there is your problem. Thats what you fail to understand. I didnt 'look' at anything, i was merely listening to the examples and posted what i thought sounded best to me.

I call that passing on a spontaneous subjective impression without overanalyzing things.

'To look at' is a figure of speech and it this context it means 'to listen'. So change 'to look at' with 'to listen to'.

I also didn't overanalise anything, I simply listened with my ears, which instantly told me (See? Another figure of speech, my ears didn't really tell me anything, they don't speak, I just heard with my ears, ). Well, they told me that the attack is rubbish.

...both Vertigo and Harmor have not reproduced the attack correctly...

How do you know that?

By using my ears?
In the first post George gives the name of the sample he used from Alchemy. I loaded that sample in my Alchemy and heard the original.

[himalaya]

That demo 'Harmor kills' is certainly impressive. Great demo bManic!

In this demo you used a very simple note. Try adding a full song with complex stereo movement. Harmor absolutely brutally KILLS alchemy, even at it's default, low CPU settings. Now crank up the quality of Harmor (it has tons of settings in the advanced page) and it is in a complete league of it's own.

But why not use a simple note? This simple note was not reproduced correctly by Harmor, despite its superior resynthesis. And now I'm surprised having heard your demo. It can't handle a bass note but it manages a first rate full song resynthesis. Wierd or what?

[rj0]

... My laptop can't handle Harmor at it's full quality.

Cheers!
bManic

Happened to spot this in the Help guide:

------

"Performance vs Quality:

... <Other settings> ...

Precision: Computation precision. Select from:

- Average ... so don't have much impact on your CPU load.

- High - ...

- Perfect - ... require vast amounts of CPU (mainly to be resurrected via simulation) ... Use of this setting should only be attempted if your have access to CPUs not yet invented."

------

Changing from Average to High might be good.

Perfect, on the other hand ...

[Igro]

My laptop can't handle Harmor at it's full quality.

Cheers!
bManic

I have i5 Sandybridge and it can't handle highest quality as well.

[rj0]

... My laptop can't handle Harmor at it's full quality.

Cheers!
bManic

Happened to spot this in the Help guide:

------

"Performance vs Quality:

... <Other settings> ...

Precision: Computation precision. Select from:

- Average ... so don't have much impact on your CPU load.

- High - ...

- Perfect - ... require vast amounts of CPU (mainly to be resurrected via simulation) ... Use of this setting should only be attempted if your have access to CPUs not yet invented."

------

Changing from Average to High might be good.

Perfect, on the other hand ...

Missed this (sorry, still digging through the Help guide), same section:

"Safety - Partial safety ceiling. This determines how many partials above the root note are played. 0 Cents and FULL are off."

Sounds like this might affect the partials allotted (reduce?), as well. (So many settings. I'm sure that I am still missing some useful ones. Needs a comprehensive PDF user guide.)

[himalaya]

The incredibly simple drag and drop with almost perfect results in Harmor is VASTLY superior to Alchemy (never heard about nor used Vertigo).

In this demo you used a very simple note. Try adding a full song with complex stereo movement. Harmor absolutely brutally KILLS alchemy, even at it's default, low CPU settings. Now crank up the quality of Harmor (it has tons of settings in the advanced page) and it is in a complete league of it's own.

I just tried to do the same and I have to say Alchemy can do a 1:1 copy of your original track but in mono only. That is the only shortcoming. Otherwise, when using the spectral resynthesis engine I got just as impressive results (which I never tried before in Alchemy, so thanks bManic, as I got to resynthesise a whole track at last ).

So, all that needs to be done in Alchemy is for the spectral engine to become stereo. Camels, are you reading this?

[ENV1]

'To look at' is a figure of speech and it this context it means 'to listen'. So change 'to look at' with 'to listen to'.

The hell you say!

Well, how about taking your own advice then?

Or do you think im that stupid?

The apostrophes were there for a reason you know, but obviously you want to keep misunderstanding me.

I simply listened with my ears...they told me that the attack is rubbish.

Same here. Only mine told me that Harmor sounded like rubbish.

So what now? Are we going to hit each other with virtual pillows until one of us gives in?

I loaded that sample in my Alchemy and heard the original.

So now you suddenly have the original?

Sure didnt sound that way a few posts back.

But whatever. Like i said, i think its probably best we agree to disagree and get on with our lives...

[ENV1]

On a more useful note; i have installed the Demos of both Harmor and Vertigo and ran a quick mini-project through them.

Its nothing to get excited about, the 'song' is just me fooling around with synths and samples, also there are no FX, no compression, no limiting on the master bus, its just the pure signal and the mixing is probably crap too.


Order is Original -> Harmor -> Original -> Vertigo.

In Harmor i have simply imported the WAV via Analyze File. (Or something like that.)

In Vertigo i have first resetted the synth then loaded the WAV.

Unless the way i handled Vertigo was terribly wrong there really is no comparison between the two.

Hear for yourself.

http://www.filesonic.com/file/1918384961/hartigo.zip

[bmanic]

The incredibly simple drag and drop with almost perfect results in Harmor is VASTLY superior to Alchemy (never heard about nor used Vertigo).

In this demo you used a very simple note. Try adding a full song with complex stereo movement. Harmor absolutely brutally KILLS alchemy, even at it's default, low CPU settings. Now crank up the quality of Harmor (it has tons of settings in the advanced page) and it is in a complete league of it's own.

I just tried to do the same and I have to say Alchemy can do a 1:1 copy of your original track but in mono only. That is the only shortcoming. Otherwise, when using the spectral resynthesis engine I got just as impressive results (which I never tried before in Alchemy, so thanks bManic, as I got to resynthesise a whole track at last ).

So, all that needs to be done in Alchemy is for the spectral engine to become stereo. Camels, are you reading this?

To be fair, Harmor's engine is not stereo either!! But the drag and drop is done smartly. First you drag the sample to one part, then to the other and it automatically selects the other channel. Thus you get a stereo file.

It actually didn't occur to me that Alchemy has the image part as well so I was always trying to get the additive resynthesis to work properly.

Will need to explore Harmor further.. and I take it back that Alchemy can't achieve the results as Harmor, it obviously can.. now that I look at the image side of things. Duh!

Oh how I wish simple drag and drop worked in Alchemy. It's almost worth buying Harmor for this feature alone. Makes it so incredibly easy to explore new sounds quickly.

Cheers!
bManic

[himalaya]

Ahh, that explains it. Great info, bManic. So, the same stereo result could also be accomplished in Alchemy by loading the Left side into source A, and Right into source B, both imported using the Spectral engine. I wonder how the stereo image would sound when recombined back in Alchemy? I can't try it now as I have to get some sleep. But yeah, I did get a very good resynthesised mono version of your original (cool track BTW, is that one of yours?).

I will definitely check out Harmor, when time permits, it looks and sounds additivitastic (except for that mashed attack on that bass sample!).

[Hunter]

As far as I can see all this shows is that nobody has read the Alchemy manual and figured out how to get the best results from it's resynthesis, which offers a lot more potential than the other two? There are various import options, as well as options in pure additive import, there are the options using the spectral engine to complement/instead of the additive engine, depending on the type of sound you are importing:

http://www.camelaudio.com/alchemymanual ... /#Additive

and if you use them properly, I'll be surprised if you can beat it. After that, there is a whole lot more you can do in Alchemy once you have imported a sample than you can do with the other two? If you want to import a sound and hear it exactly like it was originally, perhaps you should be looking at a sampler instead rather than a resynthesis engine. If you want to monkey around with it, morph, and get really creative with it, I can't see how either of the other two offer anything over Alchemy in terms of pure creative power?

[himalaya]

I loaded that sample in my Alchemy and heard the original.

So now you suddenly have the original?

Sure didnt sound that way a few posts back.

I always had the original residing in my copy of Alchemy, but decided to hear it myself only a while a go. Harmor and Vertigo have not reproduced the attack, as I tried to explain several times. Don't you hear Vertigo's lowest note all mushy, and Harmor's soft attack when compared to the Alchemy version? Your 4 way speakers should be able to play it back?

[himalaya]

As far as I can see all this shows is that nobody has read the Alchemy manual and figured out how to get the best results from it's resynthesis, .... there are the options using the spectral engine

when using the spectral resynthesis engine I got just as impressive results