Do you consider this cheating?

[Loki Fuego]

What I didn't get was your point of view. As far as I knew you could have been in favor of his method of 'discoveries'.

My point is, that it's not a cheating. It might be laziness, lack of understanding of how scales and keys work or whatever. Am I cheating when I'm using remote control to switch TV channels? No! But if never switched a channel until I discovered remote control, then it's a pure laziness. But, you know, once when I was a child I'd discovered that you could point remote control in the opposite to TV direction and still could switch TV. That was a discovery for me. Also I discovered that you could point cam corder on IR remote control and see the LED blinking, when you pressed a button. And finally, when I found that by pressing several buttons at once I could also control VHS recorded, that made my life much easier (as VHS recorder remote control was broken by that time ).


I don't get the all that discussions regarding cheating. If something helps me to make things quicker or makes some tasks easier for, then I'll using, and I don't give a damn whether someone thinks that it's cheating. But still lack of tools doesn't stop me from learning and trying something new.
I don't play any musical instrument, nonetheless I spent time and studied keys, scales, harmony, etc. I program all melodies, harmonies and chords note by note. When I do it, I use every tool I find useful (i.e. I'm using Pitch utility in Ableton Live), I don't care whether it's cheating or not.

[jancivil]

much of what I do in the piano roll is cheating of a kind, as what I can play on a keyboard in real time is extremely limited. even if I was excellent at it I would edit intensively, the *key editor* is a discipline in itself as far as I'm concerned.

my point on cheating is that if one does not know what to do in an unfamiliar key, or outside their comfort zones, there are possibilities precluded by this lack of understanding. The point one person made per Chopin in a key with a lot of flats is apt here.

I don't give a damn what someone gives a damn about. It isn't going to stop me from telling the truth, you cheat yourself by deciding not to learn a new skill, in favor of a quick fix.

And the most useful tool in the creation of music is knowledge of music. You cheated yourself majorly in this regard eschewing learning any instrument. So, you're in a hurry, I get it.

In seeking to justify this, you now have the statement 'laziness isn't cheating'. Practically to the point of presenting 'laziness is virtuous'.

[debra1rlo]

I cheat, but I cheat the right way so it's OK.

You... you cheat the wrong way. Tut tut on you!



this thread is full of win

[rbarata]

I've read this about the increasing use of computer systems (let's call it shorcuts) in airplanes:

"While automation may bring many safety and economic benefits, he writes, there are signs that
the computerized airplanes may create new problems that raise safety questions: pilots become
bored, complacent, dissatisfied with the jobs, and less skilled.
The potential for catastrophe...does exist"

This is just an example.

[Aleatoriac]

Sometimes I record my keyboard playing at half tempo so I don't screw up the part quite as bad as usual... I am such a WHORING CHEATER

You all are CHEATER!

[jancivil]

I cheat, but I cheat the right way so it's OK.

You... you cheat the wrong way. Tut tut on you!



this thread is full of win

Your comment is full of fail. You demonstrate one thing for sure here: you have the time to have at someone in the thread without making any other contribution, which is standard debra1rio modus operandi.

My comments could be instructive, and someone reading can choose to take them in their actual context, or do as you, take it out of that context to have at a person.

[debra1rlo]

I cheat, but I cheat the right way so it's OK.

You... you cheat the wrong way. Tut tut on you!



this thread is full of win

Your comment is full of fail. You demonstrate one thing for sure here: you have the time to have at someone in the thread without making any other contribution, which is debra1rio modus operandi. I think the former follows the latter.

My comments could be instructive, and someone reading can choose to take them in their actual context, or do as you, take it out of that context to have at a person.

Nope, I'm attacking your hypocrisy. You DON'T play your keyboard parts either but explain it away with your superior condescending attitude based on this "good information" you claim to have. Never mind the person answering you claimed to have studied theory, which was overlooked/dismissed.

If I wanted to be a condescending purist like you, I could call you a fraud for not playing your keyboard parts and using samples you bought in lieu of actually playing your instruments. At least that how it looks from someone who DOES play all their keyboard parts.

You comments could be constructive, but only without that snarky know-it-all attitude that is ever present in your responses.

[Meffy]

All of which will be on the exam, but that's enough insults. Back to the topic, and remember that the question is whether the individual posters CONSIDER transposition controls to be cheating, not whether it IS cheating in an absolute and undeniable way.

Remember Lebowski.

[jancivil]

I cheat, but I cheat the right way so it's OK.

I can demonstrate that I know my way around music, quite outside the fact I compensate for lack of keyboard expertise with the key editor. However, when I play something into the piano roll, my ear is in tune with my thinking and so the guesswork is pretty much removed. OTOH: a person that has decided it isn't important to know keys beyond a couple of them in their comfort zone will, by definition, not have obtained the same knowledge.

I also fail at playing the saxophone or violin, but I have knowledge of the music from studying it and the parts I write are convincing; understanding how different keys work is a part of this, it's the study of MUSIC.

Deciding that it's a good idea to ignore a part of basic musical knowledge is not the same decision as a decision to focus on instruments in lieu of piano. Deciding to eschew learning any instrument is not the same decision either. This should be clear enough in context. This equivalence you require in order to diss me is not real.

[Meffy]

Great! So we have you down for "yes, I consider it cheating" a half dozen or so times. Anyone else?

[jancivil]

yep, and you also have reasons why.

anything else 'janitor'?

I mean 'thought cop'.

[Meffy]

*tsk* You jump to conclusions so easily. You will think whatever pleases you, obviously. Wouldn't dream of trying to change that. I simply pointed out that that lump of horsemeat is pretty well pulverized by now, the obvious implication being that the OP might be best served by hearing from someone else. Up to you whether you think that's important.

[leggie]

Asking if transposing is pragmatic would have been a better question then jancvil could have had an easier time ! however, if someone likes the music then it's not important how it was done? unless you just want to talk about musical knowledge rather than pragmatise it.

[jancivil]

You DON'T play your keyboard parts either but explain it away with your superior condescending attitude based on this "good information" you claim to have. Never mind the person answering you claimed to have studied theory, which was overlooked/dismissed.

I play everything in via a keyboard or zendrum controller and edit it. Much of my music is very difficult to play at all, by anyone, and it is advantageous to have a tool that obviates the problem.

The second statement is irrelevant. In the context of the thread, you can find it pointed out aptly that the composer Chopin used devices in keys owing to the especial way the keyboard is laid out. Beyond the other ramifications, keys have their own physical quality.

I'm sorry, the very fact of you saying 'that you claim to have' and reading in your estimation of my attitude into any statement, your particular emotional backstory with my posts reveals the ad hominem nature of your contribution to this thread, which shows us only this.

[jancivil]

I simply pointed out that that lump of horsemeat is pretty well pulverized by now, the obvious implication being that the OP might be best served by hearing from someone else. Up to you whether you think that's important.

That's your opinion, and at the end of the day the crucial one is that of the po-po. No worries. Just disabuse yourself of the notion I buy your act.

I would take this to PM, but since you find it appropriate to have at people in public instead, I follow your tone.