Image-Line Harmor released

[Igro]

no, people people want to get different waveforms and detune them.

or rather, people want to get that.. in classic subtractive synths. My tip to those starting with Harmor would be to forget everything they know about subtractive synths, not to think of waveforms according to their look (I know that displaying them at the top-left doesn't help, though), and to try out new ways to get new timbres, instead of trying to replicate subtractive presets.
Otherwise, better use a classic subtractive synth IMHO, as they will be more CPU efficient (you can apply the same filter to 2 or more audio sources merged in them, you can't do that in Harmor)

We talk to you about a small feature request and those requests were reasonable. Such implementaions will not harm Harmor. Making extended mapping, as was mention by others as well, could make it even better. If you are against any further improvements(suggested here), then you better say it right now to everybody, so people will think twice before buying, cos all Image-line synths licenses can't be sold later. I bought it yesterday though.

[chroma]

I really would like to know what people are expecting to get out of additive synthesis. One thing I really like about Harmor is that, while he's reproducing some common subtractive synthesis models, it more appears to be focused on trying to simplify things that are easier in additive than subtractive, like prism. which you could probably do with a custom formant filter, but here it is as a knob. there are lots of things you could do with formant filters but custom editing them is too complicated sometimes.

i really would not like harmor to be hamstrung by trying to be another subtractive synthesizer with a few extra tricks. let it be something new and different, and i'm sure in the future we will see more unique additive transforms added to those knobs, that will be more valuable than duplicating a feature that is in 90% of other subtractive synths already. or at least do it the proper additive way, by implementing a transform that adds those harmonics, rather than add another oscillator....

i'm speaking mostly theoretically these days because I hardly get any time to do any music at all these days, let alone get deep into synthesis (though i will be buying harmor next month)... i think alchemy can do most of this, but it's buried under menus and requires custom format filter programming. it would be nice if i could create my own custom formant filter and have those as knobs on the main interface.

A filter is a macro-scale harmonic modifier which everyone is familiar with... it's easy to use, a couple knobs make large changes in the sound that are somewhat logical. the even/odd harmonic knobs on my K5000s were like this too... kind of like morphing between a square and a saw, but you could do it for any arbitrary waveform (sort of).

[Nokenoku]

And then it's just uncool to tweak the envelope, if only the half of the sound reacts to it.

in the envelope editor's menu there's an option to copy from one part to the other

I know ... but this is still a bad solution for realtime tweaking (often done with the knobs for attack etc.).

[Igro]

no, people people want to get different waveforms and detune them. You can't do this in Harmore by using only part A.

You can! Even the default patch contains two different timbres... detuning works with the pitch to unison envelope.

Yeah, but after that, unison module is locked for this action. You can't use it originally anymore.

("It will pan saw to one side and square to other side" - Edited and clarified opposite)

[luckystrike]

Harmor is like Sylenth1 (2 parts with 2 oscs/timbres) but Sylenth1 got better mappings (master filter, controlling the envelopes of both parts together etc.).

We just need more targets... like "Volume -> Global envelope"

i really hope Gol will implement wider and better global mapping. Honestly, xyz are not enough. It's really bad to operate with doubled automation tracks in the host.

Why do you map vsti's knob on the macro controll inside the vsti and after that bother to automate the macro controll inside the host? I could get the point if you need 8knob for the live performance.


By the way I read people talking about what the morphing is and I found one that auther says it's morphing. It's visual programing tool for moduler synth. I don't know if it works as it calims and maybe still under the development.
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bi ... TauEditor1
video

It seems that we need to align the atack of the each sound and distinguish between the voiced part and the unvoiced part through each analyzer view for formant, amplitude, frequency and bandwidth(what is it??).


http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bi ... TauEditor2
Some audio analysis and harmonizer/unison effect. Nothing special though.

[Igro]

Harmor is like Sylenth1 (2 parts with 2 oscs/timbres) but Sylenth1 got better mappings (master filter, controlling the envelopes of both parts together etc.).

We just need more targets... like "Volume -> Global envelope"

i really hope Gol will implement wider and better global mapping. Honestly, xyz are not enough. It's really bad to operate with doubled automation tracks in the host.

Why do you map vsti's knob on the macro controll inside the vsti and after that bother to automate the macro controll inside the host? I could get the point if you need 8knob for the live performance.

Because in Studio One i can't atomate with one line a few parameters.

[tony tony chopper]

If you are against any further improvements(suggested here), then you better say it right now to everybody, so people will think twice before buying, cos all Image-line synths licenses can't be sold later.

Wait: I would advise anyone who doesn't like Harmor as it is -right now-, not to buy it. It's not a preview, it's a full release. Besides, by nature, plugins are very hard to improve (hard to change anything related to automatable parameters without breaking compatibility).
There will most likely be bugfixes, maybe some new features, certainly new presets, but no one should buy it in hope that he will like the future updates.

It's just 1 click to copy an envelope to another, but they can't be linked, because parts must be fully independent (by internal design).

[tony tony chopper]

it more appears to be focused on trying to simplify things that are easier in additive than subtractive, like prism. which you could probably do with a custom formant filter, but here it is as a knob

Note that the prism unit is purely an additive feature, there's nothing like that doable in a subtractive synth. It deviates the freq of each partial (& you can control how exactly using the prism mapping). In Harmless it was called "grittiness", & I believe there's something similar in Razor as well.

[tony tony chopper]

Yeah, but after that, unison module is locked for this action. You can't use it originally anymore. It will pan saw to one side and square to other side.

It won't be panned, because you can control the panning spread. And fully controlling each individual unison voice is not a hack, it's a powerful feature, that everyone seemed to like in Dune.
[& before someone claims we copied it, the same thing has been possible in Sytrus since 2003]

[chroma]

Note that the prism unit is purely an additive feature, there's nothing like that doable in a subtractive synth. It deviates the freq of each partial (& you can control how exactly using the prism mapping). In Harmless it was called "grittiness", & I believe there's something similar in Razor as well.

thanks, and this is precisely the kind of control I would like to see more of.

[Sendy]

Why anyone would try to make a detuned saw+square stack sound in an additive synth like this is anyone's guess. My favourite thing to do is mess around with actual waveshapes, pull them around, layer them, etc, but the beauty of additive synths is that they give you a holiday from all that, and a new approach to sound design which is more about raw spectral content. It's one I'm much less familiar with, like a lot of people who have studied and thought about synthesis more in terms of the time domain, but that's why I like it. It's a chance to start again.

*hopeful music plays*

[Igro]

Why anyone would try to make a detuned saw+square stack sound in an additive synth like this is anyone's guess. My favourite thing to do is mess around with actual waveshapes, pull them around, layer them, etc, but the beauty of additive synths is that they give you a holiday from all that, and a new approach to sound design which is more about raw spectral content. It's one I'm much less familiar with, like a lot of people who have studied and thought about synthesis more in terms of the time domain, but that's why I like it. It's a chance to start again.

*hopeful music plays*

So you think that only saw and squre musicians usually detune?

[Igro]

And then it's just uncool to tweak the envelope, if only the half of the sound reacts to it.

in the envelope editor's menu there's an option to copy from one part to the other

He meant it's not cool to having envelopes not linked like others parameters are. And i feel his pain on this. That just a big put off, honestly. I have both parts working, but then while tweaking envelope, i getting a mess. This is not realtime envelope tweaking at all. Best workaround for this could be an additional switch near the envelopes.(and chain knob leave like it is for now, without affecting envelopes, cos it's just not possible to make it like that for obvious reasons - too many envelopes in there)


Even free space for that in there:

[Madrayken]

Just want to say that - despite finding Harmor's GUI baffling - I applaud its approach.

I hate the usual 'Here are your 1 gazillion individual partials, multiplied by each millisecond of the envelope - enjoy' approach to additive synthesis.

Hands up anyone who - when faced with this - hasn't just made siney-hootey bell which only alter 1 or 2 partials, and then given up.


There are two things currently stopping me buying it:
1) Have failed to make a really good 'Alchemy beating' pad yet (none in the presets either)
2) Have failed to understand Harmor properly, probably due to 1)

If I solve these two, I'm going to buy it.

[dalor]

I would like to see (short and to the point) video tutorials on how some of the preset basses were made, starting from the default patch.

I still have troubles to understand Harmor's GUI in general regarding sound design! I find Harmor's manual too basic. It just explains the knobs but not the fundamental of how additive synthesis is implemented in Harmor.