I've got Reaper 4 in Windows 7. I will look forward to checking it out. I can use the Redoptor demo, I've also got Boogex installed on this machine.khanyz wrote:@Kazrog - Do you have Reaper 3 or 4? I've just recorded some parts (more rough than right, so forgive me) but I can send you the Reaper Project.
Basically, it has Recabinet on the Guitar track and on 2 sends. If you mute the sends you get the straight version. If you bypass the insert, then 1 send is for mid and the other is for side. I'm using Redopter as an insert for the amp, but I can use something else (POD Farm, Boogex, Anvil etc).
Cheers,
Nigel
Recabinet 3 - Opinions so far?
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- KVRist
- 149 posts since 24 Oct, 2009
Shane McFee
CEO/CTO - Kazrog
CEO/CTO - Kazrog
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- KVRAF
- 1873 posts since 16 Jul, 2004 from Deepest Yorkshire
OK. I did quick Guitar and Bass takes and just batched trimmed them. I'll render the drums down from my midi loops and throw them all into Reaper.
It won't be pretty (well punk pretty), but you'll get the idea. I'll skip vocals so it will only be intro, instrumental verse and ending, i.e. short and sweet.
No time right now, so I'll finish up AM and either email or host it, depending on size.
Cheers,
Nigel
It won't be pretty (well punk pretty), but you'll get the idea. I'll skip vocals so it will only be intro, instrumental verse and ending, i.e. short and sweet.
No time right now, so I'll finish up AM and either email or host it, depending on size.
Cheers,
Nigel
I miss MindPrint. My TRIO needs a big brother.
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- KVRAF
- 1873 posts since 16 Jul, 2004 from Deepest Yorkshire
OK, it's done. It's rough, but it gives you an idea of the width added by the method.
The ZIP file is ~25MB, can you PM me with an email address to send it to.
In it all you have to do is Mute either the Recabinet Mono, or Recabinet Stereo track. I've added Voxengo's SPAN for metering and I use MSED to combine and process the 2 instances of Recabinet. I then use the track's PAN to balance it out.
For the other tracks, I've just used Reaper Plugins.
Cheers,
Nigel
The ZIP file is ~25MB, can you PM me with an email address to send it to.
In it all you have to do is Mute either the Recabinet Mono, or Recabinet Stereo track. I've added Voxengo's SPAN for metering and I use MSED to combine and process the 2 instances of Recabinet. I then use the track's PAN to balance it out.
For the other tracks, I've just used Reaper Plugins.
Cheers,
Nigel
I miss MindPrint. My TRIO needs a big brother.
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- KVRist
- 149 posts since 24 Oct, 2009
Got the session opened today. I'm a little bit confused, though, as to why the stereo version with MSED is panned 20% left and is still very left-channel heavy, even when center panned? I'm not sure if this is what you intended to do - it doesn't sit in the mix in a way that is readily comparable with the mono version.
Shane McFee
CEO/CTO - Kazrog
CEO/CTO - Kazrog
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- KVRAF
- 1873 posts since 16 Jul, 2004 from Deepest Yorkshire
You mean right channel heavy, yes? You might want to add Flux's Stereo Tool (or something similar) to see what is going on. Also, if the other tracks are confusing you, then mute them and just listen to the guitar. I did this on a laptop, without headphones, so it's no surprise that the stereo image is off when played on a proper system. You just need to balance it so that it's centered on average. It's actual stereo placing moves, and is frequency/phase dependent so won't be centered all the time (i.e. mono). This is the dynamic effect I want.
I am artificially creating a stereo space by combining the IRs. They will, nearly always, be unbalanced if you just feed them into a M/S matrix/decoder. You need to balance them. I've simplified this in the project, but I usually use IIEQPro, Voxengo's PHA-979, DDMF StereoeretS and/or Flux's Stereo Tool to do this.
This is not a shortcut (as you said), so it takes time to get it right. It's just creates a guitar sound that I like. The project was meant to give you a starting point/flavour of it. It actually started out as a technique I used in the studio to get a good bass sound. I wanted to get the tight response of a 10" but not lose lower frequency response. I combined the DI, 10", and sometimes the horn, 15" or 18", recordings to do this. I always thought that trying to get everything from one cab (even at different placings) and DI was too much of a compromise.
As far as the mix goes, it's obviously compromised by using the same drums/bass for both guitar versions. That's why I sent you the project and not just mixdowns. You'll need to change it so that it's comparable for you, and your system.
Hope it helps,
Nigel
I am artificially creating a stereo space by combining the IRs. They will, nearly always, be unbalanced if you just feed them into a M/S matrix/decoder. You need to balance them. I've simplified this in the project, but I usually use IIEQPro, Voxengo's PHA-979, DDMF StereoeretS and/or Flux's Stereo Tool to do this.
This is not a shortcut (as you said), so it takes time to get it right. It's just creates a guitar sound that I like. The project was meant to give you a starting point/flavour of it. It actually started out as a technique I used in the studio to get a good bass sound. I wanted to get the tight response of a 10" but not lose lower frequency response. I combined the DI, 10", and sometimes the horn, 15" or 18", recordings to do this. I always thought that trying to get everything from one cab (even at different placings) and DI was too much of a compromise.
As far as the mix goes, it's obviously compromised by using the same drums/bass for both guitar versions. That's why I sent you the project and not just mixdowns. You'll need to change it so that it's comparable for you, and your system.
Hope it helps,
Nigel
I miss MindPrint. My TRIO needs a big brother.
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- KVRist
- 149 posts since 24 Oct, 2009
Thanks for the update...
I spent some more time with your session, adjusting levels, panning, etc. and getting a more even stereo image for the guitars, and I have to say, it really does have a nice depth to it now. Having two cabinets (especially two that are as different sounding as you chose) panned without the mid-side processing sounds terrible, but once you enable MSED and adjust the side level to taste, some interesting things begin to happen. I can definitely see where this technique could be great in a mix.
I'd previously always seen messing with various approaches to doubling single instrument tracks this way as a last-ditch or quick-fix approach, which is also how I've generally viewed mid-side processing. However, I now see that this type of approach can be used as a creative tool with a sound all its own - not as an alternative to double tracking - but as a cool sound in its own right.
In any event, you've made a good case here. I can see how panning inside Recabinet would be a big time saver for this approach, rather than having to set up a bunch of routing in your DAW.
I spent some more time with your session, adjusting levels, panning, etc. and getting a more even stereo image for the guitars, and I have to say, it really does have a nice depth to it now. Having two cabinets (especially two that are as different sounding as you chose) panned without the mid-side processing sounds terrible, but once you enable MSED and adjust the side level to taste, some interesting things begin to happen. I can definitely see where this technique could be great in a mix.
I'd previously always seen messing with various approaches to doubling single instrument tracks this way as a last-ditch or quick-fix approach, which is also how I've generally viewed mid-side processing. However, I now see that this type of approach can be used as a creative tool with a sound all its own - not as an alternative to double tracking - but as a cool sound in its own right.
In any event, you've made a good case here. I can see how panning inside Recabinet would be a big time saver for this approach, rather than having to set up a bunch of routing in your DAW.
Shane McFee
CEO/CTO - Kazrog
CEO/CTO - Kazrog
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- KVRAF
- 1873 posts since 16 Jul, 2004 from Deepest Yorkshire
I would say finally, but I'm just glad you like/get it.
I did pick cabinets with obviously different frequency reponses, but you don't have to. They just need to be different, with the amount affecting the movement and side emphasis. At the other end, you can also add effects, such as (multi-tap) delay, reverb etc., to the side channel. I don't like putting them on the mid as it anchors the sound.
With bass, however, you need to be more careful, with attention paid to the usual problems of low frequencies in a stereo image. Putting a HP filter on the side cabinet, before MSED, can usually deal with this. If you want this to be clean, then try something like Brainworx's bx_cleansweep. I usually use Fabfilter's Simplon, or Micro, as they let you tune/automate things.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing panning in Recabinet.
Cheers,
Nigel
I did pick cabinets with obviously different frequency reponses, but you don't have to. They just need to be different, with the amount affecting the movement and side emphasis. At the other end, you can also add effects, such as (multi-tap) delay, reverb etc., to the side channel. I don't like putting them on the mid as it anchors the sound.
With bass, however, you need to be more careful, with attention paid to the usual problems of low frequencies in a stereo image. Putting a HP filter on the side cabinet, before MSED, can usually deal with this. If you want this to be clean, then try something like Brainworx's bx_cleansweep. I usually use Fabfilter's Simplon, or Micro, as they let you tune/automate things.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing panning in Recabinet.
Cheers,
Nigel
I miss MindPrint. My TRIO needs a big brother.
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- KVRAF
- 1873 posts since 16 Jul, 2004 from Deepest Yorkshire
For those interested. Here is the project
http://www.mediafire.com/file/0186z8uxb ... 20Test.zip
Cheers,
Nigel
http://www.mediafire.com/file/0186z8uxb ... 20Test.zip
Cheers,
Nigel
I miss MindPrint. My TRIO needs a big brother.
