KVR Audio

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:42 am

Yeah, it's impossible to tell what a guitar sounds like in the store for many reasons. For one, they NEVER tune the way you want. The strings are too fu'ed up most of the time and of course the action is usually weak.

I'm so used to amp sims, I just feel until I can get it home and let it go through familiar territory, it's too hard to tell. I could take one of my guitars in, I just haven't yet.

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:35 pm

Hink wrote:my engnater really sounds great with the yellow jackets even though it was el84s and svs power tubs with a bleand controll. With the YJs it's el84/pentode and class A or AB depending on which sie of the debate you are on, (there is evidence supporting both theories). It's as much a Class A as a BADCAT or VOX and with the blend control there is a noticable difference when just using the YJs.

Wow! Neat! How's the blend?

Personally, I'm not a fan of the 6V6 side of my Blue Angel. Maybe I'll throw Yellowjackets in there to try out something like what you're doing.

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:39 pm

tapper mike wrote:Or they could just be salesmen trying to stroke your ego so you buy and get out of the store.

I was talking about other customers.

One thing I picked up on hanging out at music stores. The good sales guys don't pull out their best chops on the customer. Else wise the customer could feel intimidated and walk out.

Yeah, that's actually happened to me when I was a customer. The sales guy picked up the guitar I was playing and just tore it up, he's a phenomenal player and I truly enjoyed watching him play but there was no way I was going to go back to what I was doing after that.

One thing that cured me over playing in a music store was blues jams. The place is packed with guys staring at your hands and thinking how much better they can play then you.

Maybe that's why my music store style works for me, I'm *not* playing anything challenging or amazing so no one ever tries to show me up.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:04 pm

Uncle E wrote:
Hink wrote:my engnater really sounds great with the yellow jackets even though it was el84s and svs power tubs with a bleand controll. With the YJs it's el84/pentode and class A or AB depending on which sie of the debate you are on, (there is evidence supporting both theories). It's as much a Class A as a BADCAT or VOX and with the blend control there is a noticable difference when just using the YJs.
Wow! Neat! How's the blend?

Personally, I'm not a fan of the 6V6 side of my Blue Angel. Maybe I'll throw Yellowjackets in there to try out something like what you're doing.

it's tough to describe, this might sound like mumbo jumbo so bear with me. With the 6v6 tubes in place naturally closer to 12 o'clock you get the max sound volume wise and as you turn in more toward the 6v6 or el84s there is a diffence in character...again, what you would expect.

With the yellow jackets/el84s you get the same thing except it's the unwanted noise factor that changes as you go toward the YJs. An uneducated ear would hear it louder at 12 o'clock and might prefer that but as you play it seems that fast passages tighten up with less noise but still with all the sustain the tone becomes much more defined. I wanna say the noise floor is lower but I do not think that's the most accurate, it's more like the noise floor is less muddy and cleaner meaning less gets lost in all the mud. What I called earlier somewhere else (don't ask me where

) that jingly, jangly, open sound like with a single ended class A amp is there. It's far more forgiving as you play, harmonics are not as easily swallowed up by the rest of the tone and subtleties also are less apt to get lost.

However the mud so to speak isn't always a bad thing so heading toward the stock el84s starts to introduce a bit of that mud filling in the gaps some. Completely to el84 side you can hear the difference because it's a little darker, again not a bad thing because it's what we are use to.

I think if I am to finish songs in the future

I could see myself re-amping with my radial passive re-amper using both or even more toward the stock el84s. Using the 2 channel surround in samp I think I would be able to set that 'back' in the mix, maybe 'aiming' it from a different angle and not pushing it too hard to give a bit more of a well spread foundation while having the YJ/el84 track 'out there' a bit more. I see this as giving more definition to my guitar tone while blending it in with the rest of the instruments.

Playing though, like I said it's much more forgiving with the YJs and tbh is a lot more fun. I find it far more dynamic like with the Frenzel, of course all of our tastes differ and we all play different styles so keep in mind this is very subjective. Also I am using the pentode version of YJs and not the triode...you may find the triode more to your taste, but that's not for me to say.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:45 pm

my next amp is here

I'll post more once I have some quality time with it, I just fired it up and so far so good but I have a lot to try still. I will say that my first impression was that the tone controls are the most responsive of all my amps which is not a huge surprise

In the last 10 months that makes 3 new amps (at least one more from Frenzel to come this winter and there are a couple more I'm watching as well as a couple I want to build). By 2013 I hope to up to 7 or 8 amps, I love living where I can mic up a cab and use a real amp

davidka · Post by **davidka** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:15 pm

Please, be the first to compare it to the upcoming AT3 version

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:48 pm

davidka wrote:Please, be the first to compare it to the upcoming AT3 version

I can't, my DAW does not go online...there's not even an internet option near my DAW. However even if I could it would not be an accurate comparison because there are too many variables involved. Which speaker is closest to mine? What room settings match mine? What tubes were the modeled version running? What tubes will I eventually settle with?

I get a lot of flack from just a few people over this when I say I dont care for the brand name business model of sims, it's been my experience that not all amps of the same model sound the same (especially with older amps which is not the case here). So to say you're getting a jet city, or a marshall, boogie, soldano, fender or whatever is pure marketing and nothing else imho. What matters is if the guitar player using that sim's model likes it and can work with it. Model names are only useful for to indentify one model from another not whether it sounds like the model it's suppose to be emulating...just my opinion of course

trimph1 · Post by **trimph1** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:43 am

I'd like to see what you think about it...seems pretty good from here...

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:50 am

trimph1 wrote:seems pretty good from here...

I didn't know it was that loud

trimph1 · Post by **trimph1** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:57 am

Hink wrote:
trimph1 wrote:seems pretty good from here...
I didn't know it was that loud

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:38 am

another shot with all my mess, it's funny how much bigger it is than the egnater and the of course the Frenzel is sitting on top of the jet city for now...I got some organizing to do

BTW the yellow jackets do fit, they make the tubes much taller so that was a concern (they do sell shorty YJs). At this point the YJs I have now are going to stay in the egnater. I did try them, I do like them but the jet city is class AB fixed bias so it will take the other type of YJs which work with fixed or cathode bias amps (the egnater is cathode bias) so I am getting a set of YJs for fixed bias and will switch them between the boogie and jet city. The good thing is the cathode biased ones have a ground wire that needs to be connected to the tube socket mounting screws and the fixed bias ones do not need the ground wire so switching between the boogie and jet city will be a breeze.

As far as how the amp sounds (the jet city), it's pretty bright but I still have more playing around to do. The OD channel is pretty cool but the normal channel with my TS clone is very cool too, but it seems better suited to hi-gain which I have no problem with.

I suspect it wont be long before I swap out the generic tubes in it with JJs

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:44 am

one day that separator behind those amps is just going to melt

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:21 am

hibidy wrote:one day that separator behind those amps is just going to melt

FTR, I'm not done but at this point I have 4 all tube amps I really like, each unique from the others (5 if you count the Marshall Pre-amp) and all for less than many pretentious botique amps or re-issues that I really do not believe would offer things I do not already have that suits my useage and unique situation. Here's the breakdown

Boogie $450 (100/60 watt*)
Eganter $550 (20 watt)
Frenzel $285 (2 watt)
Jet City $500 (50 watt*)
Total $1,785

Marshall was $190 in the 90s, the YJs were $118 (the next pair will be 118-35 from MF) and the weber was $115...just like with guitars and really everything else in life, if you do not care about the status symbol attached to a brand name you can find a lot of value for your dollar.

Next up, building the iso cab with a killer unique feature I came up with. I have the place to cut the wood and have decided to go with 3 layers of 3/4" particleboard (2 1/4" thick) with wedge foam on the inside and an interlocking top and bottom. I have it worked out so that I can buy 2 4'x 8' sheets of wood at $19.95 each (the foam will be a little more than 40 dollars)

It should stay under 100 dollars, will blockout all outside noise (I am less concerned with reducing the volume of my amps than I am stopping outside noise from getting in) and I'm goin IK with the feature I came up with (tease

) but I'm sure most people will think it is a great concept that will allow me to fine tune the tone.

*20 watts with the YJs

Dean Aka Nekro · Post by **Dean Aka Nekro** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:55 pm

Nice one, great addition to the setup

Dean Aka Nekro · Post by **Dean Aka Nekro** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:06 pm

Hink wrote:

another shot with all my mess, it's funny how much bigger it is than the egnater and the of course the Frenzel is sitting on top of the jet city for now...I got some organizing to do

BTW the yellow jackets do fit, they make the tubes much taller so that was a concern (they do sell shorty YJs). At this point the YJs I have now are going to stay in the egnater. I did try them, I do like them but the jet city is class AB fixed bias so it will take the other type of YJs which work with fixed or cathode bias amps (the egnater is cathode bias) so I am getting a set of YJs for fixed bias and will switch them between the boogie and jet city. The good thing is the cathode biased ones have a ground wire that needs to be connected to the tube socket mounting screws and the fixed bias ones do not need the ground wire so switching between the boogie and jet city will be a breeze.

As far as how the amp sounds (the jet city), it's pretty bright but I still have more playing around to do. The OD channel is pretty cool but the normal channel with my TS clone is very cool too, but it seems better suited to hi-gain which I have no problem with.

I suspect it wont be long before I swap out the generic tubes in it with JJs

John you forgot

to mention the greatest piece in that whole picture and most likely one of the least bits price wise - The humble little innocent white Boss NS-2 aka the STFU box that works so damned well and does so without cutting into one's wanted signal (which is why i probably love them so much). I have said before but i'll say it again for high-gain stuff there is no way i would play without one where an OD/Boost and valve-amp are concerned

Your next amp