KVR Audio

DarkStar · Post by **DarkStar** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:12 pm

MeldaProduction wrote:
DarkStar wrote: Also, how should I be interpreting the Sonogram?
Well, it's simple - color indicates level for each frequency.

I can see that orange > yellow > green > blue. But I still don't quite get it. In the pic below there are several pools of colour for the band between 5KHz and 20KHz - at different levels. I do not see what the multiple pools are telling me. For example the pool at -40dB is bigger than the pool at (about) -35dB. But the pool at (about) -18dB is bigger.

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Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:22 pm

The colors give you an indication of the signal's intensity on the frequency spectrum. Blue is "cold", red is "hot". The Sonogram shows you the signal output on a "per signal received" basis (for example if a hat only hits on 8th notes, it's cut up on the readout since the sonogram is scrolling vertically).

It's just a different visual representation and might help you to spot a signals' intensity better than maybe a fast FFT.

MeldaProduction · Post by **MeldaProduction** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:24 pm

Thank you CompyFox

.

To you questions:
1) FFT speed - just click Settings next to the Sonogram button and change the "averaging" for example. Smoothness is also deadly useful

.

2) Sidechain - it is available for all interfaces, but VST2 is a user's nightmare for this. VST3 is way better

.

3) M/S - click main Settings button, select Settings (I know I know

) and then you have several modes - process L/R, just left, just right, just mono, mono & stereo etc. But note that if you need to process separately mono and separately stereo, you need to use 2 instances, one for mono, one for stereo. Not that simple as clicking one button, but lets you use completely different settings for both channels.

For DarkStar: There are various color modes you can setup in analyzer settings. Generally no color -> no frequency, more highlighted color -> more of the frequency. I could talk about it for hours, but it's way easier to just plug in a few loops, tracks or instruments and see what it does.

Cheers!

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:32 pm

Hm... gotta test the FFT speed at some point again.

Sidechaining... assumed as much (VST3 technology, like I said, quicktest with VST2.x)

M/S - a bit ridiculus. Can't you offer a button on the front panel to switch between input/output modes? This would definitely add to the usability.

I'll test further, but I think 20bucks are reserved for this plugin already (which means, another planned purchase needs to step back in line).

MeldaProduction · Post by **MeldaProduction** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:35 pm

Basically since there is the sonogram I'm not actually using analyzer anymore, since the sono is just much easier to understand.

M/S - well it depends, I agree, that for an equalizer there could be an option for each band... will think about it.

kvaca · Post by **kvaca** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:13 pm

Compyfox wrote: Does it tag off FabFilter's Pro-Q?
In terms of Dynamic EQing - yes. In terms of full parametric EQ with way more bands and dead simple M/S setup, etc - I'd say no (didn't find the M/S mode yet).

if you want MS or other mode-you should look at settings first...

and yes,pro Q has more bands,but on the other side MDynEq has some filters which will be very hard to setup in ProQ-you will need up to 10 bands to create same filter type that you can easily do in MDynEq with 1 band only!!..so personally I think that its a big question which has more bands available...it depends what you wanna do...for instance-if I will need easily configurable bandshelf filter than I can throw ProQ out of my window immediately,and Im still not talking about dynamic behaviour...

Its better to compare this Eq with Voxengo GlissEq than with ProQ

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:14 pm

Unforunately MDynamicEQ cramps near Nyquist, so it won't be replacing Pro-Q as my primary EQ. I don't have Gliss EQ but I would be surprised if it cramped as my copy of HarmoniEQ doesn't...

MeldaProduction · Post by **MeldaProduction** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:23 pm

IIRs wrote:Unforunately MDynamicEQ cramps near Nyquist, so it won't be replacing Pro-Q as my primary EQ. I don't have Gliss EQ but I would be surprised if it cramped as my copy of HarmoniEQ doesn't...

Well, there's a simple solution - work in higher sampling rates (or use upsampling). To be perfectly honest, I never understood the need for symmetric peaks near nyquist - this area is almost inaudible, and it seems to me that it just looks good.

bbaggins · Post by **bbaggins** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:47 pm

IIRs wrote:Unforunately MDynamicEQ cramps near Nyquist, so it won't be replacing Pro-Q as my primary EQ. I don't have Gliss EQ but I would be surprised if it cramped as my copy of HarmoniEQ doesn't...

Dan, could you elaborate on this? Pardon my ignorance, but I don't know what it means for an equalizer to "cramp". Could you explain what that means?

I have noticed that MDynEQ does sound better with oversampling turned on.

MeldaProduction · Post by **MeldaProduction** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:56 pm

bbaggins wrote:
IIRs wrote:Unforunately MDynamicEQ cramps near Nyquist, so it won't be replacing Pro-Q as my primary EQ. I don't have Gliss EQ but I would be surprised if it cramped as my copy of HarmoniEQ doesn't...
Dan, could you elaborate on this? Pardon my ignorance, but I don't know what it means for an equalizer to "cramp". Could you explain what that means?

I have noticed that MDynEQ does sound better with oversampling turned on.

It means, that most filters change the shape when you get close to samplerate/2, which in 44kHz means 22k. When you check spectrum of most commercial recordings, there is already a big dip above 15k, so personally I don't believe it's such a big deal. And if you think it is, you can just upsample.

MeldaProduction · Post by **MeldaProduction** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:56 pm

Here's a video/tutorial about the new dynamic equalizers:

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:04 pm

MeldaProduction wrote:Basically since there is the sonogram I'm not actually using analyzer anymore, since the sono is just much easier to understand.

I'm still a FFT guy, so it's all cool and just depends on what you prefer in terms of workflow.

MeldaProduction wrote: M/S - well it depends, I agree, that for an equalizer there could be an option for each band... will think about it.

Not necessarily each band, though here you can decide "which" band work on what end (L/R, M/S, just mid, just side, you get the idea). I was thinking of a general setting which declares at what the EQ works in. But then again, you're right. This still doesn't clear in "which lane" the band will work in.

Since this thing is high on my purchase list now, I'll simply look forward to an update.

Also keeping an eye on the "cramping" discussion.

kvaca · Post by **kvaca** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:13 pm

IIRs wrote:Unforunately MDynamicEQ cramps near Nyquist, so it won't be replacing Pro-Q as my primary EQ. I don't have Gliss EQ but I would be surprised if it cramped as my copy of HarmoniEQ doesn't...

well,HarmoniEq got decrampled filters,but I cannot imagine anybody with undamaged hearings using this distorting Eq at lower sample rates without oversampling....especially if you want add frequencies near Nyquist

so if I would choose between decrampled filters or oversampling I surely prefer oversampling anyway...

bbaggins · Post by **bbaggins** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:39 pm

Thanks for that video, Vojtech. Although I would not call it a tutorial. More like an informative advertisement. We see effects being applied but cannot hear what they sound like. I kept expecting the background music to change as the EQ was tweaked. Some real tutorials would be greatly appreciated.

Not a criticism, btw. I'm loving MDynEQ. It's just deeper than any other EQ I've ever used, so I'd love to see (and hear) some tips and techniques.

EDIT:
I thought I was pretty well-informed about this stuff, but in one day I've been introduced to no less than two new terms: "cramping", and "decrampled filters". I still don't know exactly what these mean, other than they describe changes to the filter slopes near Nyquist. I'd like to know why I should care.

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:13 pm

bbaggins wrote:Dan, could you elaborate on this? Pardon my ignorance, but I don't know what it means for an equalizer to "cramp". Could you explain what that means?

Most digital EQ plugins (including my own by the way) exhibit a warped response near Nyquist: with a samplerate of 44.1 or 48KHz settings above about 8-10KHz have a much sharper and steeper curve than the analogue model, and are also assymetric with a faster drop off at the higher end than at the lower.

Here we see 12dB boosts at 200Hz and at 20KHz, both with a Q of 1. The higher boost should be the same shape as the lower one, but in fact it is quite different.

I first became aware of this many years ago when I first read Bob Katz's book Mastering Audio: he suggested an "air boost" setting modelled on the Baxandall style EQ shapes, so I loaded up a standard digital EQ, dialled in his suggested settings of a bell curve at 20KHz with a Q of 1, and tried a boost... the resulting change was almost inaudible, as the smooth bell shape had narrowed to a tiny spike!

Try this with Pro-Q or HarmoniEQ and you get a nicy shimmery HF boost, just like a high quality analogue circuit.

Its important to keep this in perspective: the mid-range is by far the most important region when it comes to getting your mix right, and "standard" digital EQs work fine in the mid and low frequency range. And as Vojtech points out, you can fix this problem in MDynamicEQ by enabling oversampling, or by running your project at a higher rate.

MDynamicEq and MAutoDynamicEq released with riddiculous introductory prices! - LAST CHANCE!