u-He Zebra II Vs Arturia Complete (Analog)

[Lotuzia]

........

That said, Zebra's XMF filter is based on analogue models, as are some of the VCF modes. They're not precise models, but neither are those of other companies, fwiw.

Well, each synth with a Lpf filter at least, equipped with resonnance could claim this, like synthedit besed ones, thus ......

All filters don't sound equivalent, as well as all other modelled components....

You might have wanted to precise " precise", but tbh I find very excessive the fact of putting "all other companies" in a single bag, with a sticker on it.

Each musical instruments is different from another, and that's why for example a PolyKB II sounds vastly different from a Synthix, and ........ ACE from Zebra.

I'm merely thinking that different companies are making different researchs on several aspects of analog modelling, some of wich, you, and me, even can't have an idea of. This for the best of both musicians and musical instruments

[Uncle E]

This has become a broad discussion about analog synthesis as opposed to how closely the sounds from the two synths emulate analog sound.

That's the protocol; the answer is there, you just have to interpret it. My own interpretation of others' posts is that neither currently emulate the Minimoog all that well but that Zebra will in the next update and is a better emulation of what is generally considered "analog sound". I think I was pretty clear in my own recommendation.

Because as the wikipedia definition points out, an analog modeller doesn't just give you basic oscs and filters that allow you to get an approximation of the original sound, they literally attempt to emulate the voltage running through the circuits in a similar way to how physical modeling synths emulate plucked or bowed instruments.

That's certainly what I would call circuit modeling.

Arturia's range however, implements TAE technology which is an attempt to model the sound based on the original circuitry. This website outlines TAE:
http://www.arturia.com/evolution/en/pro ... scillators
The main point to take away is that analog oscs and filters are imperfect. An analog waveform will never be as perfect as a pure digital wave form and it is this imperfection that creates the warm sound that we love about analog. TAE is supposed to reproduce this. Perhaps this is what I love about the Minimoog V.

Honestly, if you love the Minimoog V, just stick with it and opt for the other Arturia synths. I personally don't think TAE is very accurate but I completely acknowledge that it has made its mark on modern music and has become an accepted sound all its own.

[electro]

I would also suggest getting an UAD card and inpecting the Moog filter. Their plug-ins provide a high level of realism.

Its the best VST filter to date.
http://www.uaudio.com/store/special-pro ... ilter.html

[twisted-space]

I would also suggest getting an UAD card and inpecting the Moog filter. Their plug-ins provide a high level of realism.

Its the best VST filter to date.
http://www.uaudio.com/store/special-pro ... ilter.html

It's not a vst.

[electro]

yes it is.

[djanthonyw]

I think it's also an AU and an RTAS.

[twisted-space]

It's a hardware dsp system with a vst, au or rtas front end.


Or a big, expensive, and complicated dongle.

[sounddesigner]

Why Creamware never made these synths accessible to the Native VST community like UAD does is still a mystery.

What the heck are you talking about ?? What mystery? UAD doesn't have single synth. Not a single one! UAD is DSP system and their plugins (effects only) are hosted on any DAW supporting VST. Ex Creamware now SonicCore is also DSP system. They offer effects AND synths and they can also run by any host with VST support.

But other then that they (Scope platform) offer near zero latency. Something which is impossible on UAD. Yes you can plug in your guitar and connect it to chain of effects and then through some modular synth and get crazy super quality tones. With about 3ms delay..

UncleE i have about the same experience. With Minimax i can get closer to what people call Moog tones (and beyond) then with Zebra (demo) but i am not Zebra power user. I would like to see some moog patches on Zebra 2.6 as well..

Meaning I can't buy a PCIexpress Creamware card, stick it in the DAW and load Creamware VSTInstruments as seamlessly as loading DSP based UAD plugins. Do Creamware VSTI support offline export?

SCOPE's plugins when ran as vst does'nt do faster than Realtime bounce but to say its plugins does not function as VST is not accurate by large degree. The SCOPE plugins load as vst in the Native host and apart from fast bounce operate as VST. Pro tools TDM are plugins that do not do faster than realtime bounce but are Industry standard plugins like VST's. No zero-latency dsp's do faster than Realtime bounce and probably never will since that's due to the nature of the REALtime enviroment and how the plugins are coded from the ground up to work in said enviroment. So if you desire that functionality threw Sonic Core's SCOPE platform it may never happen since their platform differs from Powercore and UAD in the sense it's REALtime like Pro tools. They're talented enough developers to possibly figure it out/invent a way one day but i would'nt hold my breath and would just see it as likely never will happen (much like the great hardware being emulated that people still love to use). I personally prefer SCOPE's SFP REALtime mode not the 'operating as Native VST mode' anyhow cause it does more adding to a computer system rather then subtracting like most dsp platforms.

But if you want to be picky ALL dsp cards have their flaws when trying to run as vst/plugins in a Native host. The Native enviroment is'nt really designed for the external hardware dsp approach hence added latency, slower bouncing for some, and eating of Asio resources amongs other problems platforms like uad, powercore and any other dsp card plugins that goes into the Native enviroment from wich it's not indigenous to like a true pure-native vst/plugin have.

I view the VST/Native-plugin approach threw dsp as a no go unless it's done like Pro tools and even then it's not fully like a True-Native plugin.

[Uncle E]

Or a big

The UAD-2 Solo Laptop is pretty small.

expensive

We are selling the UAD-2 Solo Laptop for $269.10 (including a free PCIe Adapter) which includes 10 plug-ins, including the LA2A, 1176LN, and Pultec.

and complicated

It's pretty simple, at least for me.

Personally, I use Native Instruments and built-in Cubase plug-ins on my writing laptop, then switch over to Scope, UAD-2, and Powercore plug-ins when I transfer the projects to my studio computer. The nice thing is this keeps me focused on writing music and not worrying about the sounds or mix until later on.

[twisted-space]

The UAD-2 Solo Laptop is pretty small.

No use if my laptop doesn't have a express card slot. And if it does, most manufactures are phasing them out, so what happens next time I upgrade my machine

We are selling the UAD-2 Solo Laptop for $269.10 (including a free PCIe Adapter) which includes 10 plug-ins, including the LA2A, 1176LN, and Pultec.

It's £269 ($425 ish) here. I can get a lot of nice native plugins for that and can run as many as my cpu can handle.

It's pretty simple, at least for me.

It's an additional piece of hardware, with all that can entail. Additional drivers, increased latency, more system resorces used and built in guaranteed obsolescence.

Personally, I use Native Instruments and built-in Cubase plug-ins on my writing laptop, then switch over to Scope, UAD-2, and Powercore plug-ins when I transfer the projects to my studio computer. The nice thing is this keeps me focused on writing music and not worrying about the sounds or mix until later on.

Cool, I'm glad it works well for you.

Not sure what any of this has to do with the OP.

[electro]

Show me the $249.00 PCI Express Creamware DSP card that gives DAW access to the Minimax, Pro12, Prodessey, Proone, B4000 etc just like the UAD Solo gives access to this.
http://www.uaudio.com/store/special-pro ... ilter.html

Very foolish if you ask me.

Why Creamware never made these synths accessible to the Native VST community like UAD does is still a mystery.

What the heck are you talking about ?? What mystery? UAD doesn't have single synth. Not a single one! UAD is DSP system and their plugins (effects only) are hosted on any DAW supporting VST. Ex Creamware now SonicCore is also DSP system. They offer effects AND synths and they can also run by any host with VST support.

But other then that they (Scope platform) offer near zero latency. Something which is impossible on UAD. Yes you can plug in your guitar and connect it to chain of effects and then through some modular synth and get crazy super quality tones. With about 3ms delay..

[Uncle E]

No use if my laptop doesn't have a express card slot. And if it does, most manufactures are phasing them out, so what happens next time I upgrade my machine

Sure. Universal Audio acknowledges this, as well, which is why the UAD-2 Solo Laptop is being blown out. Anyway, that's why we include a free PCIe adapter for desktop users.

It's £269 ($425 ish) here.

We can sell it to you for $269.10 and shipping would be around $30.

Anyway, DSP cards are only being discussed here because many of us believe the Scope Minimax is still the best Minimoog emulation VSTi currently in existence.

[sounddesigner]

double post

[sounddesigner]

Show me the $249.00 PCI Express Creamware DSP card that gives DAW access to the Minimax, Pro12, Prodessey, Proone, B4000 etc just like the UAD Solo gives access to this.
http://www.uaudio.com/store/special-pro ... ilter.html

Very foolish if you ask me.

Why Creamware never made these synths accessible to the Native VST community like UAD does is still a mystery.

What the heck are you talking about ?? What mystery? UAD doesn't have single synth. Not a single one! UAD is DSP system and their plugins (effects only) are hosted on any DAW supporting VST. Ex Creamware now SonicCore is also DSP system. They offer effects AND synths and they can also run by any host with VST support.

But other then that they (Scope platform) offer near zero latency. Something which is impossible on UAD. Yes you can plug in your guitar and connect it to chain of effects and then through some modular synth and get crazy super quality tones. With about 3ms delay..

Electro, what your proposing does'nt make sense. SCOPE is a far more complete platform then uad so it won't be as cheap. SCOPE is not just a dsp platform for effects. SCOPE is also soundcard, i/o, SDK, Zero-latency, Mixing enviroment, Modular synth, samplers, physical modeling, Sophisticated routing, various other synth types, etc so you won't see a solution as cheap as UAD's entry solution. UA are very stingy when it comes to stock plugins and functionality for the uad. SCOPE stock plugins are Minimax, vectron, Modular 2/3, Warp69 reverbs and chorus-delay,Pro-12, Vinco compressor,Vocoder, interpole filter (moog emulation), b2003 organ, etc etc. Creamware did a major devaluation of the SCOPE platform by letting many great plugins go as stock. The uad stock plugins are no where near quality and quantity of SCOPE's, all the good uad plugins have to be purchased separatedly.The uad solo at $249 is not a good buy due to being grossly underpowered so one needs atleast a quad card to run a decent amount of the newer plugins, and the quad is $1500. Sonic Core gives large amounts of dsp power to run necessary amounts, to do so cost more to end-users but it's the practical approach from a user rather than constantly buying uad solo type power until you have 4 or more and no motherboard to house them.

You have to keep in mind SCOPE is a interface with good converters also and much more so $249 for entry solution will not happen. Also SCOPE is much more portable then uad and portabilty has it's value. Especially the difficult codeing needed to get large amount of dsp power to work with laptops and benifit them greatly. Your trying to compare apples to oranges. Personally as a musician instruments are always vastly more important to me then additional effects.

Lets not further hijack this thread with uad vs scope, native verses dsp, etc they'll be plenty other threads in the future to do such. Plus such arguements have already been made a thousand times, no one is going to bring any new information to the table.


EDITED

[electro]

Who the hell cares what Scope is? Where is the cut down PCIe option for someone who just wants to sit 2 or 3 high quality Creamware emulations like the Pro12 in their DAW's VSTI rack next to native VSTIs like NI Kontakt?

Electro, what your proposing does'nt make sense. SCOPE is a far more complete platform then uad so it won't be as cheap. SCOPE is not just a dsp platform for effects. SCOPE is also soundcard, i/o, SDK, Zero-latency, Mixing enviroment, Modular synth, samplers, physical modeling,Sophisticated routing, various other synths,etc so you won't see a solution as cheap as uad. UA are very stingy when it comes to stock. SCOPE stock plugins are minimax, vectron, Modular 2/3, Warp69 reverbs and chorus-delay, interpole filter (moog emulation), b2003 organ etc. Creamware did a major devaluation of the platform by letting many great plugins go as stock. The uad stock plugins are no where near quality and quantity of SCOPE's, all the good uad plugins have to be purchased separatedly.The uad solo is grossly underpowered so one needs atleast a quad to run a decent amount of the newer ones. Sonic Core gives large amount of dsp to run necessary amounts, to do so cost more but it's the practical approach from a user rather constently buying uad solo type power until you have 4 or more and no motherboard to house them.

You have to keep in mind SCOPE is a interface also and much more so $249 for entry solution will not happen. Also SCOPE is much more portable then uad and portabilty has it's value. Especially the difficult codeing needed to get large amount of dsp power to work with laptops and benifit them greatly. Your trying to compare apples to oranges. personally as a musician instruments are always vastly more important to me then additional effects.