u-He Zebra II Vs Arturia Complete (Analog)

[Ingonator]

I wanted to sell Arturia Prophet V a few months ago and nobody was interested. It was the boxed version of the very first version including an USB dongle from Arturia (still works with the new V2.0 update of course). Now i finally seem to just keep it. I also got a few commercial Prophet 5 and Prophet VS banks in Sysex format which could be imported.
The most interesting part in Prophet V besides being an emulation of 2 synths is the hbrid mode which combines modules of the Prophet 5 and the VS. A hardware synth of this kind would be a killer synth...
Maybe the DSI Poly Evolver is a kind of a hardware version of this hybrid synth but it lacks a vector stick.


Ingo

[fmr]

But, while we're at it, why are you still keeping looking at (comparatively) little synths? If you want to keep emulating, I would love to see your technology on a good model of the CS80 or (sorry, I have to say it) the Matrix-12.

I can't emulate anything I don't have. Noone is going to lend me a CS80 to let me take it apart, and so far I haven't come across any decent offer.

So, may we imply that, if you have the chance, you will go for it?

[Urs]

But, while we're at it, why are you still keeping looking at (comparatively) little synths? If you want to keep emulating, I would love to see your technology on a good model of the CS80 or (sorry, I have to say it) the Matrix-12.

I can't emulate anything I don't have. Noone is going to lend me a CS80 to let me take it apart, and so far I haven't come across any decent offer.

So, may we imply that, if you have the chance, you will go for it?

Certainly. I'm not sure though if it's more difficult to emulate a filter that is not self oscillating. Large parts of our filter analysis method depend on self oscillation, which helps to deduct the location of non-linear elements and their contribution to the signal. We'll figure that out once the CS-30 arrives.

Btw. there's a good chance that I'll have a Matrix 12 again. It's the one I had borrowed when it was broken, but it's completely restored now. I'll check it out and maybe I'll have a better impression of it.

And also, you'll love to hear that we've made Diva's modulation part a bit more open. There won't be a modulation matrix, but it has become very flexible nonetheless.

[Ingonator]

But, while we're at it, why are you still keeping looking at (comparatively) little synths? If you want to keep emulating, I would love to see your technology on a good model of the CS80 or (sorry, I have to say it) the Matrix-12.

I can't emulate anything I don't have. Noone is going to lend me a CS80 to let me take it apart, and so far I haven't come across any decent offer.

I highly respect this attitude. Too many devs, especially some who do Synth Edit stuff, are doing emulations without owning the real thing.

Personally i also like to reprogram some patches of famous synths like e.g. the Jupiter 8 (currently i try it on Synthmaster 2.5) but i would never say that those are 100% correct.
BTW a proper Jupiter 8 emulation is still one of my dreams (i already had Arturia jupiter 8V and sold it) after i sold a real Jupiter 8 in 2004 after only a few months. I still think that if i kept this and a mini which i got in 2005 i would have been maybe more happy and productive than with the lots of softsynths i got afterwards. I already feel better since i got a Moog Slim Phatty now.

My opinion is that besides all those nice softsynths it's always a good idea to have a least one or two good hardware synths. Currently i got a Yamaha Motif ES 7 and a Korg Wavestation EX (both since 2005) plus a Waldorf Blofeld desktop (with SL expansion) and a Moog Slim Phatty rack. Those would be enough for doing some nice music but i could not resist all those softsynths even if i already sold a lot of them already...

Btw. there's a good chance that I'll have a Matrix 12 again. It's the one I had borrowed when it was broken, but it's completely restored now. I'll check it out and maybe I'll have a better impression of it.

An emulation of a Matrix-12 would be a real killer synth. I would love to see that. BTW some time ago (after the Jupiter 8v was published) i guessed that Arturia would do a Matrix 12 emulation and now they do the SEM so at least i was not too far away...


Ingo

[izonin]

I was playing my Triton extreme loaded with the First Call keyboard collection-a mixture of Synth and Hammond samples; I was ALMOST tempted to play our now ubiquitious game of: 'guess the synth' would it have been obvious that the minimoog sound was just a sample played on a keyboard? There are probably some of you guys that would have caught it right away, but I doubt that I have caught it immediately. Not as versatile as a vst by any means, but the sound is there.

That's why these audio samples don't tell much about the quality of the synth. You need to turn the knobs, and to have the instant feedback. Only then you can tell how well the sound resonates with the idea of a good sound, that you have in your ears/head.

[nexusdawn]

Arturia's VA's are mediocre to plain at best. Zebra's always had a lot of potential in terms of sculpting its Osc's, but even with the updates, I've never appreciated it's filters. Maybe if it had ACE's filters, I'd think differently, but it doesn't.

I'm probably going to be lynched by the Zebra mob again for giving my honest opinion, but let those with ears -listen-.

With synths like Sylenth1, DCAM, Imposcar2, Minimossta, Korg Legacy, XILS 3, Polykb, Largo, Omnisphere, Harmor, Alchemy, etc , I've never quite understood the hype surrounding Zebra, and it's 'untouchable' status on KVR.

It's great in theory, looks great, lets you modulate more than you can dream of, but then ends up sounding thin and hollow.

I guess one mans 'neutral' is another mans bland.

In terms of features, but above all, sonically, I much prefer http://straightarrow.dk/quiver/. While it's just been released recently, it shows a lot of potential, and sounds extremely nice, with filters that sculpt the timbre of a sound beautifully and richly.

Remember, this is just my opinion, I don't mean to start a holy war, for as much praise as Zebra gets, it should also be willing to receive some criticism.

[Urs]

Maybe if it had ACE's filters, I'd think differently, but it doesn't.

Zebra's XMF in "analogue" mode is exactly the same as ACE' filter, only with slightly differently scaled Drive knob.

[Gamma-UT]

Remember, this is just my opinion, I don't mean to start a holy war, for as much praise as Zebra gets, it should also be willing to receive some criticism.

It's a piece of software. For all its modulation possibilities, I don't think it's achieved sentience.

[nexusdawn]

It's a piece of software. For all its modulation possibilities, I don't think it's achieved sentience.

Yeah one would like to believe so

[Ingonator]

I was playing my Triton extreme loaded with the First Call keyboard collection-a mixture of Synth and Hammond samples; I was ALMOST tempted to play our now ubiquitious game of: 'guess the synth' would it have been obvious that the minimoog sound was just a sample played on a keyboard? There are probably some of you guys that would have caught it right away, but I doubt that I have caught it immediately. Not as versatile as a vst by any means, but the sound is there.

I got a Minimoog bank for my Motif ES 7 which sounds really great but that's also related to the nice filter of the Motif:
http://easysounds.eshop.t-online.de/epa ... ID=6460990

I just checked the website and found this new bank:
http://easysounds.eshop.t-online.de/epa ... ID=9975871

A huge amount of additional banks/samples for the Motif here:
http://shop.motifator.com/


Ingo

[nexusdawn]

Maybe if it had ACE's filters, I'd think differently, but it doesn't.

Zebra's XMF in "analogue" mode is exactly the same as ACE' filter, only with slightly differently scaled Drive knob.

Then maybe scale it like ACE's. Maybe its the Osc's also. I like ACE and its audio rate modulations, but I've yet to get anything warm, rich, thick, powerful sounding from zebra compared to the other vst's I've mentioned.

[ariston]

It's great in theory, looks great, lets you modulate more than you can dream of, but then ends up sounding thin and hollow.

I guess one mans 'neutral' is another mans bland.

Well, it would be interesting to hear HOW you arrived at this conclusion. The fact that the filter in ACE is basically the XMF we've all come to love, and that you failed to recognize this, already tells me that your opinion is merely superficial.

Thin, bland, hollow... these are a matter of taste, naturally. In my experience, Zebra can be as fat or as thin as you want it to be. So can all the other synths you mentioned.

[Urs]

Maybe if it had ACE's filters, I'd think differently, but it doesn't.

Zebra's XMF in "analogue" mode is exactly the same as ACE' filter, only with slightly differently scaled Drive knob.

Then maybe scale it like ACE's. Maybe its the Osc's also. I like ACE and its audio rate modulations, but I've yet to get anything warm, rich, thick, powerful sounding from zebra compared to the other vst's I've mentioned.

It's just the knob, really. A setting of 20 in ACE might corrspond to a setting of 50 in Zebra or so. Only the numbers of the readout are different.

If it's the oscillators maybe set them to "crisp" mode. Then they have the same spectrum for similar waveforms.

Audiorate modulations are of course best had in ACE. Nothing to argue here

[fmr]

[quote="Urs]
Btw. there's a good chance that I'll have a Matrix 12 again. It's the one I had borrowed when it was broken, but it's completely restored now. I'll check it out and maybe I'll have a better impression of it.

An emulation of a Matrix-12 would be a real killer synth. I would love to see that. BTW some time ago (after the Jupiter 8v was published) i guessed that Arturia would do a Matrix 12 emulation and now they do the SEM so at least i was not too far away...
Ingo[/quote][/quote]

I have been pushing this for so many years that I almost gave up of ever had one. So, please, please, go for it. IMO it's the pinnacle of analogue synths (modulars apart, of course).
@ Ingo: Arturia had plans for a Matrix-12 immediately after they did the Moog Modular. Unfortunately, for what I was told then, Gibson completely refuse to reach any kind of agreement. Probably, the SEM is now in public domain, or Tom Oberheim regained control of the Oberheim name, or both. But there has to be a reason why they went for the SEM and not the Matrix-12, specially because there is already a (very good) SEM emulation available, and still none of the Matrix.
So, Urs, I sincerely hope you change your mind regarding the Matrix-12.
I know that a lot of what he's capable can already be done in Zebra, but there's something on that sound and workflow that kept people salivating until now, and the second hand Matrix/Xpanders, when available, remain considerably high priced.
BTW - keep an eye at the Ob-MX. IMO it was meant to be a kind of reborn Matrix-12 that, due to an unfortunate succession of circumstances (Gibson related, once again), was a commercial flop, but is still highly regarded.

[nexusdawn]

that you failed to recognize this, already tells me that your opinion is merely superficial.

No, i just would have expected more. But it just confirms even a decent filter can't save Zebra. If you can't hear a difference between some of the synths I've mentioned thats your problem. You might be able to make any synth sound cheesy, but the real trick would be making zebra sound good.