KVR Audio

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:59 am

Ingonator wrote:
Urs wrote: there's a good chance that I'll have a Matrix 12 again. It's the one I had borrowed when it was broken, but it's completely restored now. I'll check it out and maybe I'll have a better impression of it.
An emulation of a Matrix-12 would be a real killer synth. I would love to see that.

Isn't the attraction with the Matrix 12 the flexibility that the matrix modulation routings offer rather than any sound qualities inherent to the oscillator filter and envelopes (which, if they're anything like those of my Matrix 1000, are no great shakes)?

Bronto Scorpio · Post by **Bronto Scorpio** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:00 am

fmr wrote:@ Ingo: Arturia had plans for a Matrix-12 immediately after they did the Moog Modular. Unfortunately, for what I was told then, Gibson completely refuse to reach any kind of agreement. Probably, the SEM is now in public domain, or Tom Oberheim regained control of the Oberheim name, or both. But there has to be a reason why they went for the SEM and not the Matrix-12, specially because there is already a (very good) SEM emulation available, and still none of the Matrix.
So, Urs, I sincerely hope you change your mind regarding the Matrix-12.
I know that a lot of what he's capable can already be done in Zebra, but there's something on that sound and workflow that kept people salivating until now, and the second hand Matrix/Xpanders, when available, remain considerably high priced.
BTW - keep an eye at the Ob-MX. IMO it was meant to be a kind of reborn Matrix-12 that, due to an unfortunate succession of circumstances (Gibson related, once again), was a commercial flop, but is still highly regarded.

They (Arturia) actually wanted to make a OB-X emulation iirc. But they got into copyright problems (as you said) and used the voice detuning thingy in their CS-80 emulation instead.

Cheers
Dennis

Bronto Scorpio · Post by **Bronto Scorpio** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:03 am

nexusdawn wrote:
ariston wrote: that you failed to recognize this, already tells me that your opinion is merely superficial.
No, i just would have expected more. But it just confirms even a decent filter can't save Zebra. If you can't hear a difference between some of the synths I've mentioned thats your problem. You might be able to make any synth sound cheesy, but the real trick would be making zebra sound good.

Everyone has his own taste but do you really think all the sound demos on this page sound completely bad?

http://www.u-he.com/cms/zebra2-patch-banks

Cheers
Dennis

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:04 am

Sorry, but I'm pretty sure it was the Matrix-12. There was a poll, which I voted in, and the results were the Matrix-12 in first and the CS80 in second. I even got an e-mail with the results of that poll, whcih I probably still get filed somewhere.

Bronto Scorpio · Post by **Bronto Scorpio** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:07 am

fmr wrote:Sorry, but I'm pretty sure it was the Matrix-12. There was a poll, which I voted in, and the results were the Matrix-12 in first and the CS80 in second. I even got an e-mail with the results of that poll, whcih I probably still get filed somewhere.

Ahh OK! Sorry I thought it was the OB-X. My memory isn't the best anymore

Cheers
Dennis

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:10 am

I think this one's closer to a real Mini in Zebra than many of the emulations:

http://www.u-he.com/downloads/Zebra/UH_ ... ad.h2p.zip

Of course you can't do the feedback trick, and the envelopes retrigger. And of course you need tweak it there, as there's no "mini out of the box" setting. Adjusting filter drive is crucial to get the character. And you must not add too much resonance, the Mini simply doesn't go that far.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:11 am

hakey wrote:
Ingonator wrote:
Urs wrote: there's a good chance that I'll have a Matrix 12 again. It's the one I had borrowed when it was broken, but it's completely restored now. I'll check it out and maybe I'll have a better impression of it.
An emulation of a Matrix-12 would be a real killer synth. I would love to see that.
Isn't the attraction with the Matrix 12 the flexibility that the matrix modulation routings offer rather than any sound qualities inherent to the oscillator filter and envelopes (which, if they're anything like those of my Matrix 1000, are no great shakes)?

It's also about the multimode filters which none of the other Matrix synths (6 or 1000) got.
Overall the MAtrix 12 had more modulation sources and routings than many softsynths have today and AFAIk it got VCOs and no DCOs like the other Matrix synths.

I had bot a Matrix 1000 and a Marion Pro Synth (by Tom Oberheim) in 2004/2005 but IMO they sounded nothing like the synths of e.g. OB series.

Ingo

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:12 am

Lotuzia wrote:All this Arturia bashing is really becoming to be ridiculous imho. A lot of people have Arturia synths and like them for what they are, and I really cant see why some people would want to explain them, with pseudoscientific arguments, that they should not like them.

?

I haven't read any pseudo-scientific arguments here other than the quotes from Arturia's blurb, eg. 'direct recreation of the analog circuitry'.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:17 am

Ingonator wrote:
hakey wrote:
Ingonator wrote:
Urs wrote: there's a good chance that I'll have a Matrix 12 again. It's the one I had borrowed when it was broken, but it's completely restored now. I'll check it out and maybe I'll have a better impression of it.
An emulation of a Matrix-12 would be a real killer synth. I would love to see that.
Isn't the attraction with the Matrix 12 the flexibility that the matrix modulation routings offer rather than any sound qualities inherent to the oscillator filter and envelopes (which, if they're anything like those of my Matrix 1000, are no great shakes)?
It's also about the multimode filters which none of the other Matrix synths (6 or 1000) got.
Overall the MAtrix 12 had more modulation sources and routings than many softsynths have today and AFAIk it got VCOs and no DCOs like the other Matrix synths.
Ingo

DITTO

ariston · Post by **ariston** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:21 am

nexusdawn wrote:
ariston wrote: that you failed to recognize this, already tells me that your opinion is merely superficial.
No, i just would have expected more. But it just confirms even a decent filter can't save Zebra. If you can't hear a difference between some of the synths I've mentioned thats your problem. You might be able to make any synth sound cheesy, but the real trick would be making zebra sound good.

You still haven't said how you arrived at your opinion. Now, being challenged, you're going to say "oh, I spent hours with it, and auditioned most of the presets, etc....". But to be frank, I won't believe you.

To be clear, I'm not contesting your opinion, I'm merely questioning its worth. First you say "maybe if it had Ace's filters...", then you were proven wrong, then you say "no, oh no, I knew that already, of course, hah, what kind of a dupe do you take me for?" See what I mean? You will have to agree that your credibility has suffered somewhat.

"Can't save Zebra" are pretty big words. But then, hey, it's only a synth, innit? If you feel you can make "better" music with Sylenth, then by all means do. If it makes you feel better to diss a universally acclaimed synth, then get it off your chest. The rest of us know better anyway.

Apologies if this comes across as a bit cranky, but I just contracted the flu again after being ill for one and a half weeks, and I'm a little pissed.

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:23 am

fmr wrote:Overall the MAtrix 12 had more modulation sources and routings than many softsynths have today

Well, from what I understand, you're not going to see anywhere near that level of modulation flexibility with Diva - that was the main point I was making.

Though, I would have thought that someone who new what they were doing could get very close to any Matrix 12 patch in Zebra.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:26 am

hakey wrote:
fmr wrote:Overall the MAtrix 12 had more modulation sources and routings than many softsynths have today
Well, from what I understand, you're not going to see anywhere near that level of modulation flexibility with Diva - that was the main point I was making.

Though, I would have thought that someone who new what they were doing could get very close to any Matrix 12 patch in Zebra.

We are not talking about DIVA, man, we are talking about the justification of having an emulation of the Matrix-12. DIVA is as it is, and it's not in question. We are speculating about a future emulation using the technology achievements Urs have acomplished with it.

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:27 am

I want my Mopho to sound like a Zebra 2 that is trying to emulate a minimoog. Can anyone plz explain how the friggin flying f**k I can do that?

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:31 am

ariston wrote:You will have to agree that your credibility has suffered somewhat.

+1 His opinion on anything that requires the use of his ears should best be disregarded from now on.

(The 'if Zebra only had ACE's filter' was a brilliantly entertaining own goal!

)

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:39 am

fmr wrote:We are not talking about DIVA, man, we are talking about the justification of having an emulation of the Matrix-12. DIVA is as it is, and it's not in question. We are speculating about a future emulation using the technology achievements Urs have acomplished with it.

Not sure that Diva is done and dusted yet.

And maybe one day there will be a bespoke Matrix 12 emulation from u-he... doesn't seem like Urs' style to me, but what do I know?

u-He Zebra II Vs Arturia Complete (Analog)