u-He Zebra II Vs Arturia Complete (Analog)

[Uncle E]

Another really great sounding synth is the Andromeda. That one, with a proper user interface (not that stylish confusion of teh original) would be

That's basically the DCAM Cypher. When I was porting over my Andromeda patches to Cypher, I found that I could enter the values in 1:1 and the resulting Cypher patches would only require a little extra tweaking to get them close. In the end, Cypher isn't as crisp or alive sounding as my Andromeda but it's currently the closest thing in a VSTi I've found (the Pro-12 does the crisp and alive thing well but lacks too much functionality for it to really be considered a replacement for the Andromeda).

[Ingonator]

In your guys' opinion: what softsynth (or hardsynth) inherently sounds the closest to a Matrix-12?

by modulation options: Synthmaster 2.5

Are there any Matrix 12 mod routings that Synthmaster has that can't also be replicated in Zebra?

Synthmaster 2.5 in each of the 2 layers got: 4 ADSR envelopes, 2 2-D envelopes (e.g. for use with the vector oscillator), 2 multistage envelopes, 2 LFOs, 4 modulations oscillators (e.g. for FM) and an Arp/step sequencer. Additionally there are 4 global LFOs for both layers. Besides this there are many different filter modes including a Dual one (for bot filters so its like 4 filters then). All filters have a continuous slope/Poles which could be even modulated.

You could check the demo version here:
http://www.kv331audio.com/synthmaster.aspx

Alchemy has even more modulations but as a VA synth it is worse IMO.
Z3Ta+ 2 got lots of modulation too. but as a Va it sounds worse than Synthmaster IMO.
Xils Lab Synthix got lots of modulation too and maybe the best analog sound of all VAs.


Ingo

[hakey]

Are there any Matrix 12 mod routings that Synthmaster has that can't also be replicated in Zebra?

Synthmaster 2.5 in each of the 2 layers got: 4 ADSR envelopes, 2 2-D envelopes (e.g. for use with the vector oscillator), 2 multistage envelopes, 2 LFOs, 4 modulations oscillators (e.g. for FM) and an Arp/step sequencer. Additionally there are 4 global LFOs for both layers. Besides this there are many different filter modes including a Dual one (for bot filters so its like 4 filters then). All filters have a continuous slope/Poles which could be even modulated

All well and good, but that doesn't answer my quite specific question.

[Ingonator]

Are there any Matrix 12 mod routings that Synthmaster has that can't also be replicated in Zebra?

Synthmaster 2.5 in each of the 2 layers got: 4 ADSR envelopes, 2 2-D envelopes (e.g. for use with the vector oscillator), 2 multistage envelopes, 2 LFOs, 4 modulations oscillators (e.g. for FM) and an Arp/step sequencer. Additionally there are 4 global LFOs for both layers. Besides this there are many different filter modes including a Dual one (for bot filters so its like 4 filters then). All filters have a continuous slope/Poles which could be even modulated

All well and good, but that doesn't answer my quite specific question.

I have sold Zebra 2 a few months ago so you'll have to check yourself.

Anyway do you need more modulation sources than Synthmaster 2.5 offers? BTW all LFOs could be used in step mode to work as a step sequencer with up to 32 steps and an adjustable slope for each step.
All envelopes are graphical (+ knobs) with adjustable slopes. Same about the filters.
FXs are: Distortion, Lo-Fi, Ensemble (up to 8 voices), Phaser (up to 8 stages), EQ (4 bands), Vocoder, Reverb, Echo/Delay, Chorus, Compressor and Tremolo.

Does Zebra offer 2D envelopes (X/Y) with up to 32 stages and adjustable step length?


Ingo

[hakey]

Ingo, the question asked by goldenanalog was which plugin could get closest to the Matrix 12.

Your answer, so far as replicating the modulation routings, was Synthmaster.

I was, in a roundabout way, suggesting that plugins other than Synthmaster (eg Zebra) might do equally well at replicating those same Matrix 12 routings.

And, interesting though your digression on Synthmaster's wider capabilities may be, it really has no bearing on goldenanalog's request, or my questioning of your reply to it.

[Ingonator]

Ingo, the question asked by goldenanalog was which pluign could get closest to the Matrix 12.

Your answer, so far as replicating the modulation routings, was Synthmaster.

I was, in a roundabout way, suggesting that other plugins than Synthmaster (eg Zebra) might do equally well at replicating those same Matrix 12 routings.

Your digression on Synthmaster's wider capabilities may well be of interest to someone, but it really has no bearing on goldenanalog's request, or my questioning of your reply to it.

I just answered your specific answer so where is the problem? As i sold Zebra a few months ago i just don't refer to it anymore.
I also got other synths with lots of modulations like e.g. Largo, Dune, Alchemy, Sonigen Modular, Massive, Z3TA+ 2 and Synth Squad but IMO Synthmaster was the one which fits best (both sound and modulation) from the synths i got.
Another raason is that i am currently doing a bank for it and exploring what is possible with it.

Like already mentioned above Cypher or Strobe from Synth Squad could do the job too while Strobe just got a single oscillator but with a Spread (hypersaw like) feature.

Xils Synthix got 4 ADSR envelopes, a multimode filter and 2 LFOs (+ 2 "special" LFOs) and with the layers you got even more so it's quite flexible too. Sound wise it one of the most analog sounding softsynths i know.


Ingo

[hakey]

I just answered your specific answer so where is the problem?

With respect, you didn't answer the question.

Nevermind...

[Ingonator]

I just answered your specific answer so where is the problem?

With respect, you didn't answer the question.

Nevermind...

Your question was this:

Are there any Matrix 12 mod routings that Synthmaster has that can't also be replicated in Zebra?

As i don't remember all routings in Zebra correctly so i listed the features/modulators of Synthmaster. Those could be combined in the mod matrix which has around 64 entries (source/destination for each). You could click on any knob to set one or more modulations for this knob easily.
Currently i am using(programming Synthmaster mostly so it's the synth which i currently know best.

Again: Why don't you check the demo versions of Synthmaster and Zebra yourself?


Ingo

[fmr]

Ingo, the question asked by goldenanalog was which plugin could get closest to the Matrix 12.

Your answer, so far as replicating the modulation routings, was Synthmaster.

I was, in a roundabout way, suggesting that plugins other than Synthmaster (eg Zebra) might do equally well at replicating those same Matrix 12 routings.

And, interesting though your digression on Synthmaster's wider capabilities may be, it really has no bearing on goldenanalog's request, or my questioning of your reply to it.

OK, let me try to explain. IMNSH and highly biased opinion, considering I am a fan of the Matrix-12 since I worked with one in college, the Matrix-12 is like nothing else, and it's not about the matrix, or the modulators, or the filter, or the oscillators - it's about each of these and everything as a whole. The only point against is the interface, very 80ish, which forced us to keep the patch in our head in order to not become lost.

The beast has a Lag generator, three tracking generators, four ramp generators (think a two segment envelope), five DADSR envelopes, five very complex LFOs, all this per single patch, and we could pile until twelve of these in a multi patch.

The modulation matrix has 20 slots. The Oscs (real VCOs) have Triangle, Saw and Pulse, which can be all activated at the same time, The Pulse has PWM, of course. The second Osc also had noise. The multimode filter has 15 modes.

What sounds is the Matrix-12 capable? Pretty much all the sounds of the previous Obies (although some claim they were drier) and a lot of others. I came out with some crazy stuff back then. Make a search over the net and you will find lots of examples. I didn't find anything that matches it, and I would love to. Maybe I am just being nostalgic, but there are a few synths I have in a high account, and the Matrix-12 is in a very high place in my scale (in second place, to be more precise).

Don't bother trying to find any soft synth that can replicate the Matrix-12 - you won't find it.

P.S. - Some facts may be incorrect. If so, please excuse me, and feel free to correct them.

[Ingonator]

Ingo, the question asked by goldenanalog was which plugin could get closest to the Matrix 12.

Your answer, so far as replicating the modulation routings, was Synthmaster.

I was, in a roundabout way, suggesting that plugins other than Synthmaster (eg Zebra) might do equally well at replicating those same Matrix 12 routings.

And, interesting though your digression on Synthmaster's wider capabilities may be, it really has no bearing on goldenanalog's request, or my questioning of your reply to it.

OK, let me try to explain. IMNSH and highly biased opinion, considering I am a fan of the Matrix-12 since I worked with one in college, the Matrix-12 is like nothing else, and it's not about the matrix, or the modulators, or the filter, or the oscillators - it's about each of these and everything as a whole. The only point against is the interface, very 80ish, which forced us to keep the patch in our head in order to not become lost.

The beast has a Lag generator, three tracking generators, four ramp generators (think a two segment envelope), five DADSR envelopes, five very complex LFOs, all this per single patch, and we could pile until twelve of these in a multi patch.

The modulation matrix has 20 slots. The Oscs (real VCOs) have Triangle, Saw and Pulse, which can be all activated at the same time, The Pulse has PWM, of course. The second Osc also had noise. The multimode filter has 15 modes.

What sounds is the Matrix-12 capable? Pretty much all the sounds of the previous Obies (although some claim they were drier) and a lot of others. I came out with some crazy stuff back then. Make a search over the net and you will find lots of examples. I didn't find anything that matches it, and I would love to. Maybe I am just being nostalgic, but there are a few synths I have in a high account, and the Matrix-12 is in a very high place in my scale (in second place, to be more precise).

Don't bother trying to find any soft synth that can replicate the Matrix-12 - you won't find it.

P.S. - Some facts may be incorrect. If so, please excuse me, and feel free to correct them.

I know all this and i would be very glad to get a Matrix 12 emulation soon but the question was which plugins are at least close in terms of features.
The Matrix 12 also got a multimode filter which is why i did not mention any synth with a single filter (e.g. LPF only).


Ingo

[hakey]

Your question was this:

Are there any Matrix 12 mod routings that Synthmaster has that can't also be replicated in Zebra?

As i don't remember all routings in Zebra correctly so i listed the features/modulators of Synthmaster.

In order to answer my question you needed to first explain which of the Matrix 12's mod features could be replicated within Synthmaster's, and you didn't.

[hakey]

@fmr - thanks for the detailed explanation.

[EvilDragon]

Don't forget that MachFive 3 has supposedly modelled Oberheim Expander filter modes (a helluva lot of them). It might be worth a shot trying them sometime...

[Bronto Scorpio]

I guess Zebra will get a little closer once the 2.6 update is done. There will be "modulation modifiers" iirc. Lag generators, delays, quantizers etc.

Very welcome addition by the way!

Cheers
Dennis

[Ingonator]

Your question was this:

Are there any Matrix 12 mod routings that Synthmaster has that can't also be replicated in Zebra?

As i don't remember all routings in Zebra correctly so i listed the features/modulators of Synthmaster.

In order to answer my question you needed to first explain which of the Matrix 12's mod features could be replicated within Synthmaster's, and you didn't.

The comparable features which Synthmaster got are a dual analog modeled multimode filter (LPF, HPF, BPF, Notch, Allpass ; adjustable Poles) or a dual filter mode for mixed filters per layer, 4 ADSR envelopes, 2 multi stage envelopes (2-16 stages), 2 LFOs and a mod matrix with 64 slots. Additionally there are 4 global LFOs. All LFOs got Saw, Square, Sine, Triangle, Step sequence or Noise as waveforms. The LFOs got an AR envelope (with adjustable slopes) e.g. for adding a Delay.

Both "basic" oscillators (besides the more advanced ones) contain Saw, Square, Sine, Triangle, Pulse (PWM possible by modulating "Phase" parameter), Noise and any more as Single cycle waves or sample (SFZ) import. besides this there are 4 extra modulation oscillators for FM or Ringmod. Those could be shifted 5 octaves down so any waveform (standard, single cycle or SFZ) could be used as a LFO with those.
What's really missing could be lag generators and S&H in LFOs. All modulations in the mod matrix of Synthmaster could be used in multiply or additive mode and you could use "Constant" as a modulation source which could be a kind of lag generator.
Of course one main problem could be the lack of a proper Oberheim Matrix 12 multimode filter which contains dual modes. This should be a bigger problem than adding more modulation sources IMO.

More or less the same should be true about Zebra.



Ingo