u-He Zebra II Vs Arturia Complete (Analog)

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hakey wrote:
Clouseau wrote:
Ayatollah wrote:
Clouseau wrote:nothing new under the sun
Zero-delay-feedback filters?
If you read carefully the two precedent posts <EDIT Before the one you quoted> you"ll see they were refering to SMM emulation, and some of the analog circuitry emulation methods, wich was what I was discussing.
Hmm, yeah, but you started your post with the following quote from Gonga:
Diva is synthesizer history in the making. I have wondered though why others haven't tried these , and how long before they do?
And, after a load of semi-coherent waffle, you went on to say:
So to answer your question, nothing new under the sun.
As Gonga's question referred to the 'new approaches that Urs has taken', and as the zero-delay-feedback filter approach is, afaiaa, a new approach, it seemed that your answer to Gonga was misleading; as such, I corrected it.

And, sorry, but there was no indication that that particular claim was intended to address any other post than Gonga's (but every indication that you were engaging in a not-so-subtle attempt at talking down the work of a competitor - real classy :tu: ).

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First, I fully enjoy your superior and comtemptuous attitude, continuously attaching mords like "waffle" "Clouseau" "semicoherent" to people who dare to disagree with you. It will certainly make you look very smart. :)

As you can see "new approaches" has an S at the end of the word, so it certainly doesnt refer ONLY to ONE single feature, like zero-delay-filter.

By attempting to make my post look by semi-coherent waffle, its indeed you, the supremacist, who tries to make works of competitors looks like unworthy, a very classy attitude as you said, with the help of another ( pdxindy ) guy whose numerous posts pop up in every possible thread to only say that U-He products are the only superior ones, and, accordingly, more seldomly bashing other products ( there are evidences of that ).

You'll note that I did not even discussed the intrinseq quality of the Diva synth, but just gave some explanations on some technical points ( that you dont seem to want to discuss, either because you know they are true, either because you dont have any clues about it ) If Diva is the best VA for you, it's OK. Its only your opinion though and yu might want to avoid to try to establish it by spreading poorly informed information and misleading people into thinking that the wheel has been reinvented.

If you refer to Zero-Delay-Filter as something new under the sun, then you should perhaps google for Vadim Zavalishin, from NI. ( Back in 2008 ) :roll: :roll:

Or maybe, as you wrote it yourself, at Andy's Cyclomic filter. So nothing new under the sun here again.

There are, by the way, at least one other approach to make a zero-delay filter, used by at least one company I'm aware of. (or now a fourth one if we consider Vadim's one, Andy's one, Urs one, and the other company's one ) So nothing new under the sun :wink:

Seems to me that from a guy who contested TEA from Arturia like an outraged squaw as beeing limit marketing, you take much less care when it comes to products you actively support by organising contests for. This is not really what I oulld call fair play.

Anyway I'm deeply honored that two Urs fanboys follow my tracks and dispute every single word I say, and try at any price to destroy the image of competitive products. This says much about your intentions.

I only brought some valuable informations, that you qualified as waffle, but didnt discuss, but actually all you do is barking and biting.

I personnaly dont believe that any VST is superior to others, and Afaics, I could not make Diva sound as a PolyKB, or a Synthix, or a "simple" Korg MS-20, for example. So I merely believe in diversity and different characters for different units. ( Btw all these synths including the Korg emulation have just numerous features that Diva dont have. This doesnt make them inherently superior btw, just different, if difference is a word you can hear ? )

Note : and dont forget to quote only 2 words of my entire post, not answer to it, but only try to make a jerk out of me. (once again ..... ) :wink:

LtZ
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Synth Presets

77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there

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u-he über alles! Diva is the mental ray of audio synthesis.

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chacka wrote:
Ingonator wrote:Here is a comparison (wav file) of the same preset, first in Diva and then in Arturia Minimoog V (Arturia starts around 1:38 ):

https://rapidshare.com/files/2628398261 ... son_01.zip
Ohhhh, even after some loudness correction the differences are stunning. The Arturia sounds like an organ in comparisson. It's that static. Are you sure you have the detuning set correctly and everything? And -can- you switch the legato off in the Arturia? I never played with it as I once owned the Moog Modular by Arturia and didn't expect anything above that from the Mini.
Diva ownes them, hands down.
Gotta try the Xils.
Hi,

there is no extra detuning in that special patch as it uses a Saw in 3 octaves (16', 8' and 2') and there is no legato or glide in both examples (Diva and Arturia). Envelopes Attacks are at 0 in both cases too.

You could get the 15 day evaluation version of Arturia Minimoog V here (like i did too for comparison):
http://www.arturia.com/evolution/en/dow ... osoft.html

About Xils: I got all 3 synths of them. Love them...
Diva and Xils complement each other very well as they model totally different synths. A 1:1 comparison of Diva and the Xils synths is almost pointless due to this IMO.
Anyway i'll try to replicate a few of my Synthix patches with the Diva Jupiter 6 modules.


Ingo
Last edited by Ingonator on Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:30 am, edited 3 times in total.
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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Lotuzia wrote:If you refer to Zero-Delay-Filter as something new under the sun, then you should perhaps google for Vadim Zavalishin, from NI. ( Back in 2008 ) :roll: :roll:

Or maybe, as you wrote it yourself, at Andy's Cyclomic filter. So nothing new under the sun here again.

There are, by the way, at least one other approach to make a zero-delay filter, used by at least one company I'm aware of. (or now a fourth one if we consider Vadim's one, Andy's one, Urs one, and the other company's one ) So nothing new under the sun :wink:
Vadim uses a different approach to implement zero delay feedback which is nowhere near as complex as ours.

Andy's Drop is not yet public, so yes, we're first.

That third thing you name only exists in your imagination
could not make Diva sound as a PolyKB, or a Synthix, or a "simple" Korg MS-20, for example.
I can tell you why, if you want.

Please refer to the email I sent to you to keep this civil.

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Lotuzia wrote:Afaics, I could not make Diva sound as a "simple" Korg MS-20, for example.
This is the part I'm not agreeing with. Could you please expand on that?

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Ingonator wrote:Hi,

there is no extra detuning in that special patch as it uses a Saw in 3 octaves (16', 8' and 2') and there is no legato or glide in both examples (Diva and Arturia). Envelopes Attacks are at 0 in both cases too.

You could get the 15 day evaluation version of Arturia Minimoog V here (like i did too for comparison):
http://www.arturia.com/evolution/en/dow ... osoft.html

About Xils: I got all 3 synths of them. Love them...
Diva and Xils complement each other very well as they model totally different synths.


Ingo
Hi Ingo,

yeah, I was wrong. I meant actually the envelope retriggering that doesn't happen in your Arturia example.
Well, as the Arturia sounds like that I will not demo it. I already have a great Mini emu. Will check the Xils now.

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Umm.. I thought UAD had zero-delay-feedback plugs? Starting with their compressors. Also Cytomic.

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chacka wrote: Well, as the Arturia sounds like that I will not demo it. I already have a great Mini emu. Will check the Xils now.
The only other Mini emulation i got besides Diva and the Arturia demo version is a Moog Slim Phatty... :D



...but i have tried all others including Minimonsta.


PS:
I forgot i also got SampleMoog which i haven't used for some time.


Ingo
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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izonin wrote:Umm.. I thought UAD had zero-delay-feedback plugs? Starting with their compressors. Also Cytomic.
Yes... but all we ever said was, that we're the first ones to do a native softsynth with that technology.

Some manufacturers seem threatened now, whereas others stay cool. Stephan Schmitt of NI was at our place last week and congratulated us to be first. I don't know why people can't just be as relaxed and embrace the progress we made ;)

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chacka wrote: Well, as the Arturia sounds like that I will not demo it. I already have a great Mini emu. Will check the Xils now.
I wouldn't waste my time with Arturia... but the XILS stuff on the other hand is top notch. Synthix has a lovely character.

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izonin wrote:Umm.. I thought UAD had zero-delay-feedback plugs? Starting with their compressors. Also Cytomic.
But those are not synths right?...

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nevermmind
Last edited by hakey on Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Urs wrote:Some manufacturers seem threatened now, whereas others stay cool. Stephan Schmitt of NI was at our place last week and congratulated us to be first. I don't know why people can't just be as relaxed and embrace the progress we made ;)

Stephan is a very cool guy. It shows real greatness to do what he did.
Me off now to embrace some more of the MS-20 sounds in Diva... :love:

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How long have Hakey and Lotuzia been at each others throats for?

I have only been a member for a short while and they provide tremendous entertainment !

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IMO we are on the way to a new level of sound quality which for me started with Albino 3 and then over e.g. Sylenth1, ImpOScar, OP-X Pro and Synth Squad lead to synths like e.g. PPG Wave 3.V, Xils Synthix and U-He Diva.

Besides not being an emulation i would add Synthmaster 2.5 as like Zebra it already proved that it improves again and again with no end in sight. Especially those who started with Synthamster v1 like me should agree to this. :)

The next step would maybe be adding all the Diva modules into Zebra and adding a few more modules like e.g. Prophet, Oberheim and CS-80 filters.


Ingo
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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