KVR Audio

Fritze · Post by **Fritze** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:47 pm

himalaya wrote:"Warning: this synth is alive!"

Nice one!

Gonga · Post by **Gonga** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:11 am

Guy asks a simple question and gets 21 pages (and counting) of replies, many of which are about other synths, and even compressors

Thank you Urs for the bit of history, I find it very interesting!

I want to say to Lotuzia that I respect his posts and really agree with his philosophy that all different synths have a place for what they each contribute to our musical lexicon. I do apparently differ in that I think there are qualitative differences, and in order for any craft to progress it is important to continually strive to improve quality and to recognize such achievements for what they are.

That said, I also agree that it is unwise to take negative criticism too far, because it is not constructive. In fact, though I own many Arturia synths and have used their minimoogV for many years now, and have been critical regarding very specific quality issues, I also in fairness recognize them for having made a contribution in emulation. I still turn to the Moog Modular V for "that sound" because it is the only way I know of to get 9 "Moog-like" oscillators together to create anything like that sound, and these VAs still serve a purpose for those who have their heads screwed on straight enough such that they can still see their way forward most of the time instead of sideways (or even backward).

For the record, I am (was) pretty well known over at the Moog forums for a few years because of my quality criticisms of the Voyager. I was never rude nor criticized for my statements, but I found myself quite alone in my criticism for a long time. Ultimately, people began to realize that my "issues" were real, but unfortunately no fixes were ever made so I sold my Moog and never looked back.

It is ironic, but happily so, that Urs' marvelous work (and let us not forget his dedicated staff

) has brought me a virtual analog synth that is quite superior in sound quality in many ways (though not all), and which addresses every one of my needs while opening up vast new horizons before me.

In this day and age, with all the bad things happening in the world, it is a wonderful thing to still be able to say... "it's a great time to be alive."

Syncretia · Post by **Syncretia** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:14 am

pdxindy wrote:
Kruddler wrote: The Diva beta will be out in a day or so. [..] The sound is exceptional.

Just downloaded Diva. I feel like tossing Minimoog V in the bin. Diva is an amazing synth. Well done Urs.

I wish I could now change this thread to be Diva Vs. Arturia. I think that Diva would win hands down.

But my question now is this:

Obviously, Diva is excellent at analog sounds. There are obviously some components which really make it stand out at modelling analog sounds. Will these end up in Zebra?

If all the sounds in Diva, are going to end up in Zebra, I'm going to buy Zebra. If not, I'll buy Diva.

Gonga · Post by **Gonga** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:23 am

A lot can change in 13 days

I believe Urs has said that some of Diva's technology, such as zero-delay feedback, will make its way to Zebra.

However, the two synths will always be quite different. Diva is meant to be a virtual analog, and also is designed to simulate certain sections of particular analog synths. Zebra is not a virtual analog per se because it is more than simply a subtractive synth, it is a much more complex modular design, and is not intended to ever simulate particular analog components.

Someone else might add to this comparison. I hope it helps.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:47 am

Kruddler wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
Kruddler wrote: The Diva beta will be out in a day or so. [..] The sound is exceptional.
Just downloaded Diva. I feel like tossing Minimoog V in the bin. Diva is an amazing synth. Well done Urs.

I wish I could now change this thread to be Diva Vs. Arturia. I think that Diva would win hands down.

But my question now is this:

Obviously, Diva is excellent at analog sounds. There are obviously some components which really make it stand out at modelling analog sounds. Will these end up in Zebra?

If all the sounds in Diva, are going to end up in Zebra, I'm going to buy Zebra. If not, I'll buy Diva.

IIRC - Some Diva tech will make it to Zebra, but like with ACE, it will still have its own use. ACE can do all sorts of audio rate modulations that Zebra cannot. Likewise, I guess that incredible sound quality in exchange for huge CPU footprint will not work for Zebra. Zebra has too many tools and complexity to do that.

I think Diva and Zebra will be fairly complimentary... and if it is analogue modeling you are after, then just get Diva.

That said, Zabra keeps getting better and better since I purchased it. Not just extra features tacked on, but new tech like in Diva does make its way there so it is never obsoleted.

ps - latest Diva sound example

http://draigathar.org/sounds/Diva-14a.wav

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:45 am

goldenanalog wrote:Any opinions on the Creamware Prodyssey, especially by direct comparison to an actual ARP Odyssey?

The Prodyssey is a versatile and great sounding synth but it doesn't sound like the black and orange Odyssey I used to own.

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:46 am

removed

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:48 am

Urs wrote:Some manufacturers seem threatened now, whereas others stay cool. Stephan Schmitt of NI was at our place last week and congratulated us to be first. I don't know why people can't just be as relaxed and embrace the progress we made

Bravo, Urs. DIVA is by far my favorite native soft synth ever made.

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:49 am

Lotuzia wrote:As you kindly agreed that it was impossible to make Diva sound like a MS-20

While it doesn't sound the same as the MS-20, it sounds more like one than Korg's software MS-20 does.

bill45 · Post by **bill45** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:55 am

The arturia sem demos sound awesome

Foxis · Post by **Foxis** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:01 pm

Since this thread has sort of degenerated into a "which softie can sound analogueish" I just thought I pop this question in here:

Where is the love for Imposcar2? Sure it's not claiming to be analogue modelling this or component simulating that, but when playing it and going for the same kind of sounds of yesteryear that seems to be the target of Arturia, Diva, etc. then I really find Imp2 to be an extremely strong contender. It can sound very thick, warm and alive IMHO.

So, I'm surprised it gets no or little mention. Why is that...?

Lotuzia · Post by **Lotuzia** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:47 pm

Foxis wrote:Since this thread has sort of degenerated into a "which softie can sound analogueish" I just thought I pop this question in here:

Where is the love for Imposcar2? Sure it's not claiming to be analogue modelling this or component simulating that, but when playing it and going for the same kind of sounds of yesteryear that seems to be the target of Arturia, Diva, etc. then I really find Imp2 to be an extremely strong contender. It can sound very thick, warm and alive IMHO.

So, I'm surprised it gets no or little mention. Why is that...?

I often mentioned The Imp' as one of my favorites VAs. A lot of what ImpOSCar does, other dont ( reverse is also often true ) wich is a sign of the diversity in music and musical instruments philosophy I appreciate.

Some people prefer to think in term of "superiority", wich is their right, (ie this X synth is not different than this Y one, it is superior in all fields ) For me, the single fact that two instruments do sound different, and that X synth can't do what Y synth can do, justifies the existence of both synths X and Y. ( In other words a Sitar has the same right to exist than a Stratocaster)

Superiority afficionados like to back up themselves with scientific ( sometimes pseudoscientific ) arguments : Like look how this guitar made in X country with superior technology sounds much better than this handcrafted guitar made in Y country with 'dated' technology. Very common people like me just think " Oh this Y guitar has a nice and different sound that I like so much"

All things are not white or black though as some people are aware of both the diversity and superiority approach of things and try to make a kind of balance between the two concepts. ( and its probably not that easy )

But well we all live in a techno world and tbh I'm unable to play any type of guitar in any meaningfull way ( but I love guitars ....... )

Ok ImpOSCar is great ( btw I've made a big soundset for the Imp' for those who could be interested )

LtZ

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:09 pm

Uncle E wrote:
Lotuzia wrote:As you kindly agreed that it was impossible to make Diva sound like a MS-20
While it doesn't sound the same as the MS-20, it sounds more like one than Korg's software MS-20 does.

Hm, pardon me, but that sounds a bit dubious to me... so, you say a synth whose oscillators and filters weren't modelled after a MS-20 sounds more like a MS-20 than a synths whose oscillators and filters were modelled after one? Excuse me if i don't believe that, even without trying to make Diva sound like a MS-20 (which is kinda pointless to me anyway as i don't really feel like a MS-20 is sonically a more desirable thing than a Minimoog for example

). Your enthusiasm in all honours, but i think that's a tiny bit too exaggerated...

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:30 pm

chk071 wrote:
Uncle E wrote:While it doesn't sound the same as the MS-20, it sounds more like one than Korg's software MS-20 does.
you say a synth whose oscillators and filters weren't modelled after a MS-20 sounds more like a MS-20 than a synths whose oscillators and filters were modelled after one?

Diva's 'Sallen Key' and 'Eco Oscillator' are, afaik, modelled after the MS-20 (hence 'rev 1' and 'rev 2' filter options).

Urs has said that, though he believes it to be very close, the filter isn't a perfect emulation. Also, Diva doesn't offer envelopes modelled after the MS-20 (Urs didn't think them worth doing).

Now, I don't know how close to the real MS-20 either emulation is, but, judged as a generic analogue filter, Diva's Sallen Key sounds more convincing to me than Korg's rather thin, two dimensional affair.

ymmv, just my 2c etc...

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:30 pm

chk071 wrote:
Uncle E wrote:
Lotuzia wrote:As you kindly agreed that it was impossible to make Diva sound like a MS-20
While it doesn't sound the same as the MS-20, it sounds more like one than Korg's software MS-20 does.
Hm, pardon me, but that sounds a bit dubious to me... so, you say a synth whose oscillators and filters weren't modelled after a MS-20 sounds more like a MS-20 than a synths whose oscillators and filters were modelled after one? Excuse me if i don't believe that, even without trying to make Diva sound like a MS-20 (which is kinda pointless to me anyway as i don't really feel like a MS-20 is sonically a more desirable thing than a Minimoog for example ). Your enthusiasm in all honours, but i think that's a tiny bit too exaggerated...

DIVA has 3 modules that reproduce the circuits of our two MS-20s, a Rev 1 and a Rev 2. They're called "Dual VCO2", "HPF Sallen-Key" and "LPF Sallen-Key".

Our Rev 2 Sallen-Key filter is closer to the real deal than current hardware recreations that are on offer, let alone software.

We've f**ked up with Rev 1, but even there I think we're closer than any approach in software we've heard.

We haven't done the envelopes as they don't have much to be desired. But we did add extensive patching options that exceed those of an MS-20 by a fair bit.

The next beta will furthermore have the filters in tune with key follow.

u-He Zebra II Vs Arturia Complete (Analog)