One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

[MaxSynths]

easyQ is good static eq, which doesn't suit for filtersweeps so far.

It's a nice candidate then

[V'ger]

The trouble with modulated delays etc is that although the effect can be slight and hardly audible in a mix, the same is true for chorus with a low setting. Likewise, both can be cranked up to where you clearly hear it, and to be honest the modulation on some delays can be just as strong or worse than what you get with many choruses for example.

Both will not hide the original sound completely as heavy distortion would do, and we allow some gentle distortion in saturation plugins etc, so a quite difficult balance..

I agree rules should be simple etc, so we could for example just keep the part where it says: "effects that transform the sounds to make them unrecognizable as being from the synth are not allowed". This means all effects are allowed as long as it's done moderately.

Or we could keep the ban on modulation effects, but allow effects that has modulation as part of it as long as they are at minimum setting?

Maybe best to run a poll like you say Irion, so here are some questions, please edit or add to those and we'll run the poll till the end of the year.

• 1. Modulation effects allowed? Yes/No
  
  2. Modulation effects allowed as long as part of other effect (like delay, reverb etc) Yes/No
  
  2b If No to question 2, plugins with modulation as secondary effect (like delay, reverb etc) allowed as long as modulation settings at minimum?
  
  2c If No to question 2, plugins with modulation as secondary effect (like delay, reverb etc) allowed as long as modulation settings at moderate?
  
  3. Creative sampling (creating a result the synth can't do by itself) allowed? Yes/No
  
  4. Fixed list of allowed plugins? Yes/No
  
  5. Fixed list of disallowed plugins? Yes/No

[JJBiener]

Whatever the rule is, it should be clear what is allowable and what is not. Having an approved list solves that problem.

On a more philisophical note, at what point does a multiple delay plugin become a chorus? In other words, where is the dividing line between modulation and non-modulation effects. Chorus, flanging, phasing, reverb and spacial enhancers are all at their heart delay effects. Some we classify as modulation effects and other we don't. Where and how do we draw the line is really the issue here.

I don't want to dilute the challenge, because it is an interesting challenge. At the same time, I want to be able to produce the best tracks I can.

For me, I want space in my mixes. I love delays, reverbs and spacial enhancers for this reason. To me things like flanging and phasing are more sound design tools as opposed to mix tools.

Can a rule that says, "plugins used for mixing are allowable, but plugins used for sound design are not" be enforceable? Does this leave too much room for abuse, or can we as a group agree to something like this on the honor system? Any thoughts?

[gorgorgathgorgorgor]

I guess we're not voting on a synth for December either...

[IrionDaRonin]

Don't worry mate, once again, you won't need to pay for using it, so people can be quiet for that.
And i think that too many contestants will come into it this month.

Have a good day

[bzur]

Don't worry mate, once again, you won't need to pay for using it, so people can be quiet for that.
And i think that too many contestants will come into it this month.

Have a good day

Can't wait

[RuediRena]

Well maybe time for a rules discussion again? Specifically the effects rule. Modulation has been banned since the beginning here, but should it continue to be?

100 % YES!

To us this lovely contest is all about restrictions and how they trigger your creativity. So please be restrictive and enjoy whatever workaround your fellow musicians and yourself come up with. It's fun!

Cheers
RuediRena

[V'ger]

Whatever the rule is, it should be clear what is allowable and what is not. Having an approved list solves that problem.

On a more philisophical note, at what point does a multiple delay plugin become a chorus? In other words, where is the dividing line between modulation and non-modulation effects. Chorus, flanging, phasing, reverb and spacial enhancers are all at their heart delay effects. Some we classify as modulation effects and other we don't. Where and how do we draw the line is really the issue here.

This mirrors what I said when I first joined the challenge; why ban something that can be virtually reproduced with allowed effects.

Still in 2 minds about this as I would want the nicest possible tracks and make a track like normal just using one synth, on the other hand have come to appreciate tweaking the synth to get the at the phat which otherwise I might not have if it was just to slap on some chorus etc instead of putting lfo's etc to good use, which I guess was the whole point to begin with..

But of course whatever the rules they should be followed. The trouble is obviously with the gray area, and as I've noticed lately that some really go strict with themselves and have hardly any external effects at all, but get hardly any bonus point for it, whereas others who put their toes over the line loses none, which is why the slightly stricter line lately as the voter justice is not really so much in effect.

A list of allowable effects seems like a good idea, but considering the VAST number of OK effects out there, it would be a lot of work to write up such a list.. And there would be endless additions etc.

So please get the pointers in and let's just run a poll through December and majority rule, counting from OSC 36 (January).

[MaxSynths]

A list of allowable effects seems like a good idea, but considering the VAST number of OK effects out there, it would be a lot of work to write up such a list.. And there would be endless additions etc.

Well my idea was a SHORT list
Something like:

Allowed effects:

REVERB
Niceverb VST
Goodverb VST

DELAY
Wonderlay VST
Dudaduda VST

etc...


Not a list of all available FXs, but a small selection to be sure that everybody have the same tools and can show his skills more at synth programming than mixing/audio enginering.

[Bjulin]

I give my vote to a list of allowed Plugs...

That will solve all problems for the future and it is not too hard to do a list, I think! Some of us already use the same Plugs, simply because, they're good (eg. mgTempoDelay or the Kjaerhus Classics).

...have a nice day!

[Doc Jon]

When I first joined the OSC I didn't really understand why there was a 'no modulation effects' rule, but the more I took part, the more obvious it became that it was sensible

Allowing modulation would make it very difficult to see what people had actually done with the synth of the month, and as RuediRena says above, it's the restrictions within which we have to work that make the competition as challenging and inspiring as it is

So I would vote to keep the 'no modulation' rule

A list of approved effects would be fine but I think it would be very difficult to come up with a comprehensive selection. I'm sure there are still quite a few compatibiliy problems with certain effects/DAW combinations, particularly across the 32/64bit divide. The list would have to be extensive enough to include at least one usable effect in every category for all the many different hosts out there, 32 and 64bit too - it would need a certain amount of work to check that everyone ended up with a usable selection

Jon

[V'ger]

That is true, maybe better with a list of outlawed effects instead? Although it would take time to catch all..

But should really point out that just as much or more warping can be done with automation. Just drawing in some wild curves to a synth parameter can put most modulation effects to shame and some DAWs even have built-in lfo's to make it easy, but there are alternatives like MIDIMod and MIDISeq from Sonic Assault or stuff from NicFit and others as well.

[bzur]

That is true, maybe better with a list of outlawed effects instead? Although it would take time to catch all..

I second that, we could start little by little... my contribution:
- TAL Dub II

[gorgorgathgorgorgor]

Don't worry mate, once again, you won't need to pay for using it, so people can be quiet for that.
And i think that too many contestants will come into it this month.

Have a good day

Can't wait

The anticipation is killing me!

[gorgorgathgorgorgor]

When I first joined the OSC I didn't really understand why there was a 'no modulation effects' rule, but the more I took part, the more obvious it became that it was sensible

Allowing modulation would make it very difficult to see what people had actually done with the synth of the month, and as RuediRena says above, it's the restrictions within which we have to work that make the competition as challenging and inspiring as it is

So I would vote to keep the 'no modulation' rule

A list of approved effects would be fine but I think it would be very difficult to come up with a comprehensive selection. I'm sure there are still quite a few compatibiliy problems with certain effects/DAW combinations, particularly across the 32/64bit divide. The list would have to be extensive enough to include at least one usable effect in every category for all the many different hosts out there, 32 and 64bit too - it would need a certain amount of work to check that everyone ended up with a usable selection

Jon

I am in agreement. I think the rules as they stand are clear and fair, and since we list our effects when we submit, there is ample opportunity for a fresh competitor to look through the submissions for ideas. As long as you don't submit too close to the deadline, there's also an opportunity to see if all your effects are "legal" and if one has a question about an effect, one can always ask in the submission forums. I don't think we need a rule change, we just need to continue to be diligent and help each other out with the rule interpretations.