Would you still buy Reaper if it will cost you as much as the other DAWs ?

[gpunk]

I also think there was a lot of promise early for Reaper to be innovative, which I don't think has happened in the program itself, although the new extensions to Reascript might change all that. In other words Reaper itself as it is now is a fairly conventional DAW

Actually that is completely wrong, we have all gotten used to Reaper now and forget it's innovations very quickly, for one example it's API has been a revelation and Reaper would be nothing without the extensions from the SWS team

Now it is your turn to read what was written and also to understand what is there - Reaper is a conventional DAW - it has very little that is not available elsewhere and certainly does not have many of the interesting features that were suggested both by myself and many others who no longer frequent the Reaper forum. When Reaper introduced the chat as primary communication the development became dominated by people in the same timezone ie mainly Nth Americans - and the feature set became increasingly conventionalised. Software such as Usine or the more or less discontinued Temper are much more innovative. However as I mentioned earlier - in fact as I mentioned from about early 2007 - the most interesting thing Reaper has going for it as a project is the extensibility.

Aha got ya
So innovation is only innovation if it is innovative to you, I see where you are coming from now
Truth is Reaper was very innovative in a lot of areas but other hosts have either copied an approach or done their own twist on it
Usine is not innovative, give me a break its one in a long list of hosts that do what it does and now is even trying the save as VST market, yep very innovative (That is not to say it isn't good)
And neither was Temper either, plenty of Atari and Amiga apps followed that kind of paradigm

See how easy it is for what you think innovation is to be torn apart
Like i said, innovation is forgotten very very quickly and any app stands on its current merits and values

[trimph1]

It's all come down to market share ...

...and the conversion of each fellow on here to one's desired DAW....

[gpunk]

I think it comes down to forum share
Reaper threads are always the most entertaining on KVR hahaha

[Bronto Scorpio]

I think it comes down to forum share
Reaper threads are always the most entertaining on KVR hahaha

[SJ_Digriz]

No you havent, you have stated blanket statements...thats all, no examples, read your posts, where is one solid example?...just your forceful opinions and what you have read on forums or whatever.

You mean like this one from this thread,where I even took the time to demonstrate the bug.

when I launch a project, The mode for some of the toggles is not set properly. Have to click them on/off to get them to display their correct state. Minor, but annoying.

That's in no way minor, rather a very major bug.
Luckily, I cant reproduce it. Neither on Win7 nor on OSX 10.7 does it misbehave like that.

If you made your own macros to open close very features, it would happen to you to. It's a confirmed problem since the very early alphas and betas of 4. It just never gets fixed. It's a nuisance in a busy project when being able to tell toggle status matters. Here's a little video to demonstrate.

The mixer toggle opens as if the mixer at the bottom is closed. However you can clearly see it is open. However, when I toggle it closed, the icon remains in the off state. Opening brings again, brings out the correct state. By the way this is teh latest 4.14 pre 1a release. It has had this problem from the very start.

Or maybe this one ...

Just one example one of the big things I don't like is the overly convoluted combinations of things you have to set to get lanes and takes to operate properly with the various recording modes. Some of the things you need to do to switch between modes are not toggles, so you can't even macro it.

To make matters worse things like Free Item Positioning, record modes and some of the lane positioning menu options are not even in the same menu structure. Of course, I can create my own menus ... which is nice ... if I want to spend my time making menu structures.

However, I have to admit the UI is getting a bit better. Some of the windows are still ass-tastic. But let's see if I can show a few in a reduced vid. Try to do gifs from a 32" monitor at high rez is hard.

I'm probably coming off more negative than intended about Reaper. I just vastly prefer Cubase. The Reaper UI stuff just makes it hard to use IMO.

New docking for custom toolbars


Having trouble with the bigger gif that shows how I have docking set up in Reaper now. Photobucket is doesn't seem to want to render it. I'll keep trying.

[VitaminD]

I mean why can't we all live together and make our choices and that's that instead of trying to convince everyone that our toys are better than theirs.

----
Current favorites...

VSTi: Charlatan
Music: Yello - Touch

well... uhmmm...

[trimph1]

I think it comes down to forum share
Reaper threads are always the most entertaining on KVR hahaha

[SJ_Digriz]

#1: Reaper is a minority host.
Am I wrong? Did it suddenly become one of the dominant industry DAWs? Is it proliferating in studios and post prod environments? Didn't think so.

Who cares? I can give a fukk on that.

Again don't take the statement out of context. A person made a statement about Price Driving adoption. My statement is simply a supporting statement for my side of the argument. This thread is about "would you buy Reaper if it cost more". It wasn't intended to be a comment on peoples decision to use Reaper. I know some very nice people who use Reaper. Bless their heart (bad redneck joke).

#2: Amazingly bad interface vs Price Point
Reaper has a virtually endless FREE full featured trial. People still don't use it. Why, because the interface sucks. Tell me a different reason.

"People" still don't use it? There are tons of people who use it, included myself.
I think it's a good thing to state your opinion as your opinion and refrain from generalizing what "people" want and do.

Of course there are people who use Reaper. GEEZ. We wouldn't be having this discussion if there weren't.

Why caveat every statement when you already know an opinion from a fact? However, my opinion on "people" is based on significant community involvement. Opinion? yes. Based on significant sampling of information? yes.

[Astromann]

You mean like this one from this thread,where I even took the time to demonstrate the bug.

Ok I missed those, so I definitely offer my apologies on that.

Just one example one of the big things I don't like is the overly convoluted combinations of things you have to set to get lanes and takes to operate properly with the various recording modes. Some of the things you need to do to switch between modes are not toggles, so you can't even macro it.

I agree with you totally about the takes actually, Mine are working better now tho, but I will be looking into seeing if I can explode cycled takes across tracks in one sweep to a hotkey or something.
Right now I set up a hot key so it arms, monitors and records the track from wherever the left time selection is...(I generally always set a time selection over where I want to record) and this works really well.
But as I said...the takes...I am going to look into exploding them across tracks if I cycle record continuously within a time selection.

To make matters worse things like Free Item Positioning, record modes and some of the lane positioning menu options are not even in the same menu structure.

Unfortunately its 1am in Australia now so I am getting pretty wasted, but one thing occurred to me (I may be off the track here) but why do you need to switch toolbars?...why not position them using the Ctrl/Left mouse dragging of the toolbar tabs? that way you can place them neatly around the interface and leave them there.
I have some vertically placed to the left of the mixer and also the right, that covers most of my bases, I barely need to look at menus at all.
But everyone works differently, and I may be making a suggestion thats totally irrelevant.
The other thing is (its just my personal opinion of course) I really find White Ties default them (although pretty) overly complicated.
Have you tried the "Reaction Theme"? to me anyway its a whole lot more easy on the eyes and not as confusing, it just somehow causes me less stress than the default theme.
But YMMV, its just a suggestion
Cheers

[gpunk]

You mean like this one from this thread,where I even took the time to demonstrate the bug.

Yeah it might help your cause if you were not saying that something is a bug which isn't
You can NOT create macros in Reaper that will act as a toggle yet (It may work a bit like a toggle but actually isn't)

Yes it is a missing feature i would like myself, but bug nope
You could create those macros as extensions and then you could make them togglable (A lot of hassle but doable if really needed)

[SJ_Digriz]

Unfortunately its 1am in Australia now so I am getting pretty wasted, but one thing occurred to me (I may be off the track here) but why do you need to switch toolbars?...why not position them using the Ctrl/Left mouse dragging of the toolbar tabs? that way you can place them neatly around the interface and leave them there.
I have some vertically placed to the left of the mixer and also the right, that covers most of my bases, I barely need to look at menus at all.
But everyone works differently, and I may be making a suggestion thats totally irrelevant.
The other thing is (its just my personal opinion of course) I really find White Ties default them (although pretty) overly complicated.
Have you tried the "Reaction Theme"? to me anyway its a whole lot more easy on the eyes and not as confusing, it just somehow causes me less stress than the default theme.
But YMMV, its just a suggestion
Cheers

Ok, have a good night. So, if you come back to the thread tomorrow ..

1) I didn't intend to get the Reaperites all riled up. This thread was about price being a driver for Reaper adoption. That's the discussion. Don't take it too seriously. It's all just food for thought and a bit of fun.

2) I actually don't like toolbars all over. I have them hotkeyed so they are easy to rotate to. I really want to be able to eliminate the default buttons over the track list. But, for some reason that is still sacred.

3) I've tried many of the skins. The only one that I've come close to feeling like the UI might eventually get somewhere I want to go is REACTION. But I still prefer the default to be honest. I was using that custom menu generator for awhile to get a more cohesive menu structure, but that had its issues.

4) I'm not ANTI-Reaper. I just think the things that limit adoption are fairly obvious.

[gpunk]

To make matters worse things like Free Item Positioning, record modes and some of the lane positioning menu options are not even in the same menu structure.

Truth be told that is a personal preference thing and some people may not want them in the same menu, that's why you can put them in any menu you ant in any order
Maybe you don't like the default menu structure, but when it takes a couple of seconds to put them where you want i'm not sure it could be dragged out as some failing on the Reaper developers for not knowing what you want where

[SJ_Digriz]

You mean like this one from this thread,where I even took the time to demonstrate the bug.

Yeah it might help your cause if you were not saying that something is a bug which isn't
You can NOT create macros in Reaper that will act as a toggle yet (It may work a bit like a toggle but actually isn't)

Yes it is a missing feature i would like myself, but bug nope
You could create those macros as extensions and then you could make them togglable (A lot of hassle but doable if really needed)

Let's see, you have a multi-state icon attached to a multi-state action which is supported by the new UI customization engine. The state is incorrectly tracked. You can say that isn't a bug if you want. I don't care what you call it. It doesn't work, which means the UI still sucks.

[gpunk]

I really want to be able to eliminate the default buttons over the track list. But, for some reason that is still sacred.

What version of Reaper have you been using, just out of interest ?



As you can see the default buttons are not over the track list at all ?
In fact you can have no buttons there if you like, has been like this for a long long time now

[SJ_Digriz]

I really want to be able to eliminate the default buttons over the track list. But, for some reason that is still sacred.

What version of Reaper have you been using, just out of interest ?



As you can see the default buttons are not over the track list at all ?
In fact you can have no buttons there if you like, has been like this for a long long time now

Only if you reskin it right? If not, I'd sure like to know how to kill it in the default GUI. I'm on the latest beta of 4, released in Nov. Haven't looked to see if there was a new update today