sigh http://www.rcm.ac.uk/Sascha Franck wrote:I googled that. No relevant hits. What is it?fateamenabletochange wrote:Royal College Pianoforte.
What would you say is the rate of success for your students?shankfiddle wrote: It only is if you have already convinced yourself that you cannot be wrong. I'm a music teacher, so although I would love to just give up, I have to continue as long as there is spongy logic to correct.
this is a somewhat ambiguous question. a student's success (however you choose to define it) is dependent on more than the teacher or his methods. parents/family/maturity/work ethic play a much more important role.NextdoorNeighbor wrote:What would you say is the rate of success for your students?
Sascha Franck wrote:Pardon?shankfiddle wrote: It is not relative, chords are based on the overtone series.
What do chords have to do with overtone series?
No doubt they areshankfiddle wrote:this is a somewhat ambiguous question. a student's success (however you choose to define it) is dependent on more than the teacher or his methods. parents/family/maturity/work ethic play a much more important role.NextdoorNeighbor wrote:What would you say is the rate of success for your students?
i don't think that I help or hinder a student's success beyond inspiring in them a desire to learn and expand their own knowledge of music. then i provide the path, but i don't "teach" as much as I facilitate learning, if that makes sense.
I have a 21-year-old beginner student who has been playing for only a month, but has a great ear. She has learned to play 2-octave major, natural and harmonic minor, scales with solid tone and good intonation. To me that is incredibly successful, and says more about her perseverance than about my tutoring. so i don't understand the relevance of your question
that being said, as long as there is improvement week-to-week, I call that successful. So all my students are successful, thanks for asking
shankfiddle wrote:Anyone who can identify intervals and chords knows each has a specific character, or color... If one were born with amazing innate pitch memory, then every note he/she hears is not an isolated event. Every pitch he/she perceives is not just a note, but also an interval relative to the remembered reference pitch.
When I get a headrush sometimes my ears start ringing... it's ALWAYS the same pitch. So let's extend this: hypothetically say that a child is born with amazing pitch memory: a pitch that they never forget. The child has had this pitch in his head before ever taking a music lesson or picking up an instrument. when that child DOES get piano lessons, the first note he ever plays is a middle C. If he has the pitch memory we discussed he's not just hearing middle C, he's thinking "it's lower than the pitch in my head. and that interval has a specific character" even if only subconsciously- you are ALWAYS comparing your experiences with past ones whether you acknowledge it or not. Don't you think that child, with next to no musical training, would describe each note as having its own "color" if there was always a reference?
shankfiddle wrote:well now we're getting into psychology/perception... just as fun as music if you ask mesammy24 wrote:As an example of this, I once tutored an autistic child, who can identify single notes spot-on, with his eyes closed. But he couldn't do too well when I played two notes simultaneously, at best he'd get one of them. There must be, however, those who can identify any and all the notes they hear through absolute pitch alone. Also, maybe some people are only correct 80% of the time. Or, they can tell the difference between A and Bb, but can they tell the difference between 150 hz and 155 hz?
Now I have a few more supporting examples.
You compare the idea of "perfect pitch" to the idea of seeing color, but even color is subjective. You THINK you don't need a reference to know that a green is a green, BUT I would argue that you calibrate your eyes to the known color of your surroundings the second you wake up, just as "vocal tension" does with sound. What if you were to stare directly the sun for ten minutes to "calibrate" then try to identify some colors for me. It would be a bit more difficult, no?
In my anthropology class a bit ago, we learned about how culture defines perception (NOT the other way around), by looking at a case study of an isolated native balinese culture. In their language there is no word for the color green, and as such, they don't perceive it as a distinct color, they would identify it as a blueish yellow or a yellowish blue, because their language has words for those colors. If the language does not define a term you don't perceive it.
Find a roomful of small children and tell them to separate themselves into 3 groups, tall, medium and short. Tell another class to get into groups of Tall and short. You could have two children of exactly the same "absolute" height and ask "how tall are you?", and one would say "medium" and the other may say "im tall, but shorter than most of the other tall kids" or vise versa.
Along the same lines, my bloodline goes back to India, where the musical system is based on 24 tones per octave, not 12. A carnatic-ly trained musician can identify a B half-flat where a western-trained musician would hear an out of tune B. The carnatic ear is exactly twice as precise as the ear of someone raised in a western culture solely because of the musical language. I really do believe that's been an advantage for me in learning the violin, aruguably the most difficult instrument in terms of intonation.
SOOOO even though you may think that perception of color is absolute, it is actually shaped by your specific culture and by referencing past experiences. I would argue that the manner in which you think you have "absolute color" is the same way one develops absolute pitch. (or has it innately, nothing more than an ability to auto-calibrate)
shankfiddle wrote:But even someone who obsesses about intonation as you mentioned is conditioned by his/her musical culture.
If you asked for a 440, most musicians could sing it perfectly using only memory like Sammy24 and I discussed - it is a standard reference pitch. Ever been in an orchestra? You'll never forget that piercing oboe tone... no vibrato... pure 440hz drilled into your head. We've been "calibrating" to 440 for the entirety of our musical careers.
I had a professor who played a separate violin/bow with gut strings, no chinrest, etc specifically for baroque music and actually tuned to A415 because historically that's what they tuned to back in the day. that's just what an A was defined as and as such every single note was flatter. Over the years, the trend has been a sharpening of pitch. When my fellow students who were "born with perfect pitch" heard the professor play a Bach partita tuned to to 415 they cringed, and almost couldn't handle it. But had they been born in the 1600s and been educated at that time, their ears would have a completely different idea of what defined playing "in tune".
And just clarify, when you say "they can tell how sharp or Flat a note is without a tuner..." do you mean that to one with perfect pitch if you played an A440.05 they can tell you "the A is one twentieth of a cent sharp" like a human oscilloscope?
because as Tony Ostinato said earlier, that is a bit ridiculous - the 440-based-scale is a cultural construct. those who are "born" with perfect pitch are calibrated by their musical culture... even the most expensive tuner needs to be calibrated. That an A is defined as a convenient multiple of 10 is a relatively recent phenomenon.
While perceiving the overtone series is innate, the perception of A as needing to be exactly 440 is not.
Absolute pitch (AP), widely referred to as perfect pitch, is the ability of a person to identify or re-create a given musical note without the benefit of an external reference
Researchers have been trying to teach absolute pitch ability in laboratory settings for more than a century,[60] and various commercial absolute-pitch training courses have been offered to the public since the early 1900s.[61] However, no adult has ever been documented to have acquired absolute listening ability,[62] as all adults who have undergone AP training have failed, when formally tested, to show "an unqualified level of accuracy... comparable to that of AP possessors".[63]
using Wiki as definitive on anything is lame.tapper mike wrote:Researchers have been trying to teach absolute pitch ability in laboratory settings for more than a century,[60] and various commercial absolute-pitch training courses have been offered to the public since the early 1900s.[61] However, no adult has ever been documented to have acquired absolute listening ability,[62] as all adults who have undergone AP training have failed, when formally tested, to show "an unqualified level of accuracy... comparable to that of AP possessors".[63]
You are now finally making an idiot out of yourself (well, you already started before, more on that below...).fateamenabletochange wrote:sigh http://www.rcm.ac.uk/
Hear hear... and posting a meaningless link to the royal college of music is more clever?fateamenabletochange wrote: using Wiki as definitive on anything is lame.
So, you find that worse than what you are doing all over this thread?pap and dogma and pedantic overanalysis.
Err? "Perfect" pitch is very often called "absolute" pitch.Once the term 'absolute' is used it is defined out of existence.
Oh yes please. I'm still waiting for an explanation about what intervals and chords have to do with perfect pitch (I mean, apart from simply nothing).shankfiddle wrote: ... and now we are entirely off topic... let's get back to the discussion about chords and aligning partials?
FYI, it's 11:30 over here and I've just been doing sports with my little 16 month old boy.fateamenabletochange wrote: You sound drunk, given to grandiosity, hyperbole and disrespect.
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