Hi all,
Does a chord have to change per bar? I'm trying to learn about harmonization at the moment and writing melodies but I feel restricted coming up with anything with the notes available per major/minor chord. If for example( I know this is a basic example) I use C major in the first bar I could have the C playing the bass, E any fills and G the main Melody. I know I can use inversions, 7th chords 9th chords etc to vary the notes however, I'm trying to understand how I can expand on this.
I've listened to Eric Prydz - Pjanoo and correct me if I'm wrong, but in certain sections of the track he seems to start the bar with Gm and the the second half of the bar moves to F major and repeats this. This to me seems to offer lots of scope on what notes can be used per bar and phrase. The reason I ask this is because the music theory that I have read says that chord changes should happen per bar and its left me a little confused...
Thanks for any help
Chord progression question
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- KVRist
- 40 posts since 13 Oct, 2011
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- KVRist
- 441 posts since 30 Apr, 2007
There can be more than one chord change per measure. But also, don't restrict yourself to only using the chord notes in the moving lines. You can use passing tones to go between chord notes, leading tones to set up the next chord change, things like that. It just takes practice and listening to what you are doing to understand when a note will sound as part of the chord and when it is just filling in the line.
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- KVRAF
- 7837 posts since 20 Jan, 2008
That's a good question.
And part of the answer is no.
It doesn't have to but it can. A chord can work as a constant across a progression. As well chords can change two, three, or four times in a bar. It's good to listen to songs to get an idea of what is happening but it's even better if you have the sheet music even if it is only the chord outlines for comparission.
Okay so lets breat this down by parts.
The Harmony.
Your first chord is a C major and the key is in C
Rhythm is your fist cue. If you've got a solid rhythm it makes the rest go much easier. What is a solid rhythm? One that is straight foreward enough for you to perform and has some form of emphasis. Such as harder on the One beat or Harder on the 2 and 4 beat or even but solid.
Most pop is written harmony first.
So your first chord is a C. It could be an Am as it is the relative minor of C
It also could be a member of the C major family. Power chord (only roots and 5ths C4 C6 Cmaj7 C9, C11, In blues and it's babies (rock, pop, country, soul) Any Major 7 can be a dominant 7. You can also use inversions such as egc gce
There are even more suggestings just for chord alterations but I'll leave it at that for now.
Work your harmony out to a full progression before dabbling in the bassline or melody. This allows you to think about the structure of your melody.
One thing I'd also like to state is that you can have more then one type of C chord per bar. Such as rhythm riffs.
A melody is meant to be sung. It's grouped into phrases so people can sing it.
If you are so obsessed with one note or crowding all your notes no one will want to sing it and few may be able to it. Singing involves breathing. Breathing requires phrasing. A phrase or motif lasts anywhere from two beats to four measures. A phrase, line, motive can start, Before the measure. On One or on any division of the measure. But it's always wise to end your phrase before the end of the last measure of your four bar grouping so the singer can breath before singing again. Rule of thumb. If it's not singable it's not a melody. Sure songs can have solo's that are not singable but those solo's aren't considered melody.
Let's talk about your melody. It's in the key of C. All notes in the key of C are available to you. Actually scratch that all notes in the chromatic scale are available to you. However depending on circumstances some may sound better then others. There are some forms of jazz where the chord arpeggio becomes the outline of the melody. and then "connector" notes known as passing or neighboring notes are used to connect one chord phrase to another.
Usually this stuff is very very fast music over 200 bpm and it's easier to play a melody that uses arps rather then basing it on the entire scale.
So you have the entire chromatic scale available to you but.... you'd prolly prefer to keep it in C as it's familiarity in tones will sound more pleasing to the average listener. It's time to develop some.
A few more things to muddle over. Back up there I had mentioned that melodies are for singing. Pentatonic scales are actually easier to sing then diatonic ones. And a million and one musical phrases not just from the blues are derived from pentatonic scales and scale patterns. both minor and major. Often times crowding the playing field by use of diatonic structures takes away from the meat of the melody. As well sometimes by adding one off key note adds character to the piece keeping it real. Such as a melody that contains a flattened third even though it's played over a major chord.
About Basslines.
Basslines compliment harmony while supporting rhythm. Ergo. You are playing a C chord.
Your options are...
Play the root only
Play root and octave.
Alternate Root and Fifth
Play the arpeggio.
Play a walking bassline.
Play a bass riff that is derived from the chord.
Play a line based on the pentatonic scale per chord.
Can doesn't mean should. Not all basslines work with all genre's. While chord progressions and melodies can use bumping it's more prevelent in basslines.
Bumping means on the 8th or 16th note of a bar preceeding the chord one plays a note a half or whole step from below the root. In jazz it can be from either above or below. Bumping is more commonly refered to as lead in (not not to be confused with leading) notes. It gives the song a little push.
And part of the answer is no.
It doesn't have to but it can. A chord can work as a constant across a progression. As well chords can change two, three, or four times in a bar. It's good to listen to songs to get an idea of what is happening but it's even better if you have the sheet music even if it is only the chord outlines for comparission.
Okay so lets breat this down by parts.
The Harmony.
Your first chord is a C major and the key is in C
Rhythm is your fist cue. If you've got a solid rhythm it makes the rest go much easier. What is a solid rhythm? One that is straight foreward enough for you to perform and has some form of emphasis. Such as harder on the One beat or Harder on the 2 and 4 beat or even but solid.
Most pop is written harmony first.
So your first chord is a C. It could be an Am as it is the relative minor of C
It also could be a member of the C major family. Power chord (only roots and 5ths C4 C6 Cmaj7 C9, C11, In blues and it's babies (rock, pop, country, soul) Any Major 7 can be a dominant 7. You can also use inversions such as egc gce
There are even more suggestings just for chord alterations but I'll leave it at that for now.
Work your harmony out to a full progression before dabbling in the bassline or melody. This allows you to think about the structure of your melody.
One thing I'd also like to state is that you can have more then one type of C chord per bar. Such as rhythm riffs.
A melody is meant to be sung. It's grouped into phrases so people can sing it.
If you are so obsessed with one note or crowding all your notes no one will want to sing it and few may be able to it. Singing involves breathing. Breathing requires phrasing. A phrase or motif lasts anywhere from two beats to four measures. A phrase, line, motive can start, Before the measure. On One or on any division of the measure. But it's always wise to end your phrase before the end of the last measure of your four bar grouping so the singer can breath before singing again. Rule of thumb. If it's not singable it's not a melody. Sure songs can have solo's that are not singable but those solo's aren't considered melody.
Let's talk about your melody. It's in the key of C. All notes in the key of C are available to you. Actually scratch that all notes in the chromatic scale are available to you. However depending on circumstances some may sound better then others. There are some forms of jazz where the chord arpeggio becomes the outline of the melody. and then "connector" notes known as passing or neighboring notes are used to connect one chord phrase to another.
Usually this stuff is very very fast music over 200 bpm and it's easier to play a melody that uses arps rather then basing it on the entire scale.
So you have the entire chromatic scale available to you but.... you'd prolly prefer to keep it in C as it's familiarity in tones will sound more pleasing to the average listener. It's time to develop some.
A few more things to muddle over. Back up there I had mentioned that melodies are for singing. Pentatonic scales are actually easier to sing then diatonic ones. And a million and one musical phrases not just from the blues are derived from pentatonic scales and scale patterns. both minor and major. Often times crowding the playing field by use of diatonic structures takes away from the meat of the melody. As well sometimes by adding one off key note adds character to the piece keeping it real. Such as a melody that contains a flattened third even though it's played over a major chord.
About Basslines.
Basslines compliment harmony while supporting rhythm. Ergo. You are playing a C chord.
Your options are...
Play the root only
Play root and octave.
Alternate Root and Fifth
Play the arpeggio.
Play a walking bassline.
Play a bass riff that is derived from the chord.
Play a line based on the pentatonic scale per chord.
Can doesn't mean should. Not all basslines work with all genre's. While chord progressions and melodies can use bumping it's more prevelent in basslines.
Bumping means on the 8th or 16th note of a bar preceeding the chord one plays a note a half or whole step from below the root. In jazz it can be from either above or below. Bumping is more commonly refered to as lead in (not not to be confused with leading) notes. It gives the song a little push.
Last edited by tapper mike on Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dell Vostro i9 64GB Ram Windows 11 Pro, Cubase, Bitwig, Mixcraft Guitar Pod Go, Linntrument Nektar P1, Novation Launchpad
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 40 posts since 13 Oct, 2011
Both great replies thanks
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- KVRian
- 909 posts since 26 Nov, 2005
The information Trapper Mike provided is good, solid music theory. I learned theory in high school and it dominated how I wrote music for many years. The result was that my music sounded conventional and not very interesting. What I didn't realize at the time was that music theory is the starting point, not the destination. I allowed the theory to constrain my creativity, and the results were lacking.
Music theory is important, don't get me wrong, but it is only useful to a point. As Shakespeare said, "There are more things in Heaven and Earth..." You need to understand the theory to the point where you no longer have to think about it consciously. Then you need to let you imagination run wild. You subconscious mind will keep you within the basic realms of accepted theory, but you will be able to branch out from it and try things that might not strictly comply.
My approach is through improvisation. I don't just improvise a melody over a defined chord structure. I improvise the chord structure as well. Sometime I abandon a chord structure completely and move into counterpoint or other harmonic areas. I have experimented extensively with shifting tonal centers. Not because I read about them in an article or a book, but because that is where my improvisation took me, and I liked the result. Melodies too are not constrained by scales or modes. You have 12 notes to work with in an octave. Almost any note will fit into any scale or mode depending on the circumstances.
When I was in high school, back in the dark ages, the school brought in Woody Herman and his band to give us a clinic. In the break out sessions, the piano player told us something that took me years to fully understand and implement. Basically, it was, "If you want to see if something works, try it out. If it sounds good keep it. If it doesn't move on."
One last quote and it happens to be my Facebook thought for the day. "Without deviations from the norm, progress is not possible." --Frank Zappa
That's my two cents.
Music theory is important, don't get me wrong, but it is only useful to a point. As Shakespeare said, "There are more things in Heaven and Earth..." You need to understand the theory to the point where you no longer have to think about it consciously. Then you need to let you imagination run wild. You subconscious mind will keep you within the basic realms of accepted theory, but you will be able to branch out from it and try things that might not strictly comply.
My approach is through improvisation. I don't just improvise a melody over a defined chord structure. I improvise the chord structure as well. Sometime I abandon a chord structure completely and move into counterpoint or other harmonic areas. I have experimented extensively with shifting tonal centers. Not because I read about them in an article or a book, but because that is where my improvisation took me, and I liked the result. Melodies too are not constrained by scales or modes. You have 12 notes to work with in an octave. Almost any note will fit into any scale or mode depending on the circumstances.
When I was in high school, back in the dark ages, the school brought in Woody Herman and his band to give us a clinic. In the break out sessions, the piano player told us something that took me years to fully understand and implement. Basically, it was, "If you want to see if something works, try it out. If it sounds good keep it. If it doesn't move on."
One last quote and it happens to be my Facebook thought for the day. "Without deviations from the norm, progress is not possible." --Frank Zappa
That's my two cents.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
there is truth there: "If you want to see if something works, try it out. If it sounds good keep it. If it doesn't move on." the thing is, people that get to where they can improvise have so much less worry about what to do next in a composition. they just do it. to get to that point means you get intimate with an instrument.
to decide to 'compose' having never done that is pretty much getting ahead of oneself. A lot of people get the idea they can read something instead of trying things by hand. 'what [insert preference of genre here] composition or arrangement books can you recommend'...
ibn the meantime emulate, copy, but do it whole hog, find out what happens in what you like by ear, translate what your head gets from it it to your hands, or sing it, get your body involved. Information is not knowledge. When you do it you're moving towards knowing.
to decide to 'compose' having never done that is pretty much getting ahead of oneself. A lot of people get the idea they can read something instead of trying things by hand. 'what [insert preference of genre here] composition or arrangement books can you recommend'...
ibn the meantime emulate, copy, but do it whole hog, find out what happens in what you like by ear, translate what your head gets from it it to your hands, or sing it, get your body involved. Information is not knowledge. When you do it you're moving towards knowing.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 40 posts since 13 Oct, 2011
Thanks again for the replies...
I'm guessing there will lots of practice ahead
I'm just weary of doing things in a certain way to then realise I'm doing it completely wrong. I have also considered taking piano lessons but not sure that this is necessary when making electronic music.
One question from the points above. If for example I play a sustained C major chord as a string sound throughout the first bar. Within this bar, can I create a melody to sit on top that includes any note from the C major scale or the chromatic scale. Obviously with the chord being sustained am I going to create problems with harminizing any notes outside of the C maj chord. Is it just a case of experimenting and see how it sounds?
Thanks again
I'm guessing there will lots of practice ahead
I'm just weary of doing things in a certain way to then realise I'm doing it completely wrong. I have also considered taking piano lessons but not sure that this is necessary when making electronic music. One question from the points above. If for example I play a sustained C major chord as a string sound throughout the first bar. Within this bar, can I create a melody to sit on top that includes any note from the C major scale or the chromatic scale. Obviously with the chord being sustained am I going to create problems with harminizing any notes outside of the C maj chord. Is it just a case of experimenting and see how it sounds?
Thanks again
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
well, there are notes from the scale itself that will create clashes you might find completely undesirable. there are notes outside it that might obtain effects that are desirable.
as per the former, try emphasizing F and B on the C major thing and see if you hate it, for my idea of what might be problematic given this general indication of where you're coming from.
but even that is so general, it's going to depend on things like 'how long did you dwell' how quick did you move to a concordance, etc. too hard to say much more. you do have to just experiment until you know more. knowing more can be got only from hands-on. find out about what you like from copying it and go whole hog with it. it might be hard work at first and for some time.
as per the former, try emphasizing F and B on the C major thing and see if you hate it, for my idea of what might be problematic given this general indication of where you're coming from.
but even that is so general, it's going to depend on things like 'how long did you dwell' how quick did you move to a concordance, etc. too hard to say much more. you do have to just experiment until you know more. knowing more can be got only from hands-on. find out about what you like from copying it and go whole hog with it. it might be hard work at first and for some time.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
well, some people become masters of music and never gave a shit about learning theory. I knew a jazz cat, the late George Shaw in my home town that knew all kinda things I didn't that didn't ever study theory. Paul McCartney knew no theory at all. I want to know the mechanics but some people just do not require it, they hear it, their imagination works on the shapes of things, or they have a gift for mimicry and an intuitive understanding and they just do it.
music theory is a description after the fact of what's worked, in a coherent enough format so you have a foundation. it's the grammar. you don't keep Strunk The Elements of Style by your side to write your prose for you...
music theory is a description after the fact of what's worked, in a coherent enough format so you have a foundation. it's the grammar. you don't keep Strunk The Elements of Style by your side to write your prose for you...