Rhythmic ear training -- how do I go about it?
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- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
I never said it shouldn't be fun, I never said it isn't fun...what's the big deal about? There is no such place as shangri la, sure I had a lot of fun times learning to tune but there was frustration and tbh I wouldn't want to do it again...just like I'm not breaking out the G.I. Joes to play with...it's the most natural thing on earth...it's called growth and I have no idea why the fuss. I'mnot any of you, I do not want to be any of you and I really, really love the way I did and do trhings even if none of you can see it...you guys read a lot into things that just are not there
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
there yah godebra1rlo wrote:I agree with this up to a point... certainly there definitely needs to be an element of fun for beginners so it's not "homework" so much, and perhaps a rhythm machine with a steady beat would be more in order for someone starting out...jancivil wrote:I think working on music should not feel like homework. I think it should be done to obtain a musical result as much as possible...
But, and maybe this is veering slightly off topic so apologies in advance, sometimes difficult "work" is necessary in order to challenge one's technique. Sometimes you (and I mean ME as ymmv) need to get a little frustrated with yourself in order to push the envelope/learn a new technique.
Again, not so much for beginners and obviously you don't want to be frustrated all the time (cue youtube video of that guy getting angry after repeatedly choking on the same section) but sometimes I think it does need to go beyond fun... and again, maybe that's just me.
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
difficult work absolutely, as much as you can stand, once you got your feet wet. then, pain, pain and more pain! but find a way to get off on it and turn it into pleasure.debra1rlo wrote:sometimes difficult "work" is necessary in order to challenge one's technique. Sometimes you (and I mean ME as ymmv) need to get a little frustrated with yourself in order to push the envelope/learn a new technique.
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- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
ummm, that's exactly what I said when I said "For me the real fun comes when I apply what I gained by practicing."jancivil wrote:difficult work absolutely, as much as you can stand, once you got your feet wet. then, pain, pain and more pain! but find a way to get off on it and meke it into pleasure.debra1rlo wrote:sometimes difficult "work" is necessary in order to challenge one's technique. Sometimes you (and I mean ME as ymmv) need to get a little frustrated with yourself in order to push the envelope/learn a new technique.
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
I would be fine with getting another crack at it from childhood and doing it ten times harder.
a lot of what I said is just personal, it was expected of me to have more disclipline than I had at a time I'd rather be riding my bike.
a lot of what I said is just personal, it was expected of me to have more disclipline than I had at a time I'd rather be riding my bike.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
i'm not contending with your statements, John. I did say I found a way to train my ear that was fun, after you said fun wasn't what cut it for you, but that's geared more towards the OP or someone in a similar sitch.
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- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
at the time? I'm still growing, I'm still learning, I'm still practicing and I know there will be times that some things just wont be fun...but I'm a ying/yang kinda guy...fun cannot exist without unfun for lack of a better term...but again, it's still all just relative...what is fun today might be boring tomorrow and that imho is what growth is all about
edit: it's all good Jan
edit: it's all good Jan
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- KVRAF
- 13444 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany
When will there be a time a KVR thread will stay on topic? Oh my - feeling guilty myself already.
Anyway, I agree that certain things in learning to play music yourself aren't exactly "fun". Of course, learning how to tune your guitar most certainly isn't, but once you have a decent teacher, it'll not be all that much of a "fun offtime" or whatever, either.
And regarding rhythm - to get slightly back on topic - things could probably be complete fun. Even if I didn't exactly needed that very kind of thing, I have taken some classes at some specialized music school (basically, I was preparing for the music university...) which were all more or less about aquiring a somewhat intuitive access regarding rhythms. The teachers weren't telling you anything about actual patterns, not at all. It was just like all people stepping quarter notes, then the instructor clapped a pattern and we had to repeat it. With some good instructors being there, these classes have been pure fun rather than anything else - and even those that at first didn't have a single clue learned a LOT about how rhythm actually works.
And apart from certain truly horrible (at least for some) tasks such as tuning your guitar, similar things can be applied to just about everything in music. Practising scales, chords, their relationships and what not - it *can* be fun. Or, put differently: If you can't find your personal fun in these things, you should probably be doing something else but music.
- Sascha
Anyway, I agree that certain things in learning to play music yourself aren't exactly "fun". Of course, learning how to tune your guitar most certainly isn't, but once you have a decent teacher, it'll not be all that much of a "fun offtime" or whatever, either.
And regarding rhythm - to get slightly back on topic - things could probably be complete fun. Even if I didn't exactly needed that very kind of thing, I have taken some classes at some specialized music school (basically, I was preparing for the music university...) which were all more or less about aquiring a somewhat intuitive access regarding rhythms. The teachers weren't telling you anything about actual patterns, not at all. It was just like all people stepping quarter notes, then the instructor clapped a pattern and we had to repeat it. With some good instructors being there, these classes have been pure fun rather than anything else - and even those that at first didn't have a single clue learned a LOT about how rhythm actually works.
And apart from certain truly horrible (at least for some) tasks such as tuning your guitar, similar things can be applied to just about everything in music. Practising scales, chords, their relationships and what not - it *can* be fun. Or, put differently: If you can't find your personal fun in these things, you should probably be doing something else but music.
- Sascha
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
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- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
that's probably the one reason I never finish anything, mixing isn't fun...but playing isSascha Franck wrote: If you can't find your personal fun in these things, you should probably be doing something else.
- Sascha
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.