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Nicksaf · Post by **Nicksaf** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:54 pm

My understanding of music theory starts in action so I decided to write a rock song. But reading about chords progressions didn't help.
So I took a few chords from d dorian for the intro it goes Dm Gm Am, it's sounds good to me but is it ok to do so?

Now the real problem is I want to continue from the intro with some power chords or something harder than the acoustic intro. How do I do it? Which chords to use? I mean I don't have even the slightest idea.

I'm totally stuck here, please someone help my misereble trials!

classic · Post by **classic** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:32 pm

Why not just playing what your ears like?
Don't struggle around with theory, if not really needed.

Aroused by JarJar · Post by **Aroused by JarJar** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:41 am

Why not just playing what your ears like?
Don't struggle around with theory, if not really needed.

The frets on your guitar are placed according to a very specific musical and mathematical theory, so whatever you play, you are learning and doing "theory" whether you know it or not. So if it is really "what your ears like" that you are after, you need to play a fretless or have your guitar refretted according to your own fretting.

"What your ears like within a specific given historical theoretical system" is what you must mean here. This does not go with "do not struggle with theory"; it is essentially the same as saying "struggle with theory".

@nicksaf,

I like how you chose a modal progression, but in order to be d Dorian, the characteristic note of the modal scale is the major 6th within an otherwise "minor" scale. So the progression would be d minor, G major, a minor (i-IV-v). I would suggest trying that first to see if it is really the d dorian you meant, or do you really want what you are now playing, which is d aeolian?

Either way, you could try moving on from this progression with a G major (or power chord). It is just a suggestion, you may or may not like it. How about an F major chord? Tell us what you think.

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:19 am

More chords don't make one song rock more then another. Power Chords are simply the root and the 5th note. Changing the order of chords and the rhythm can be just as effective as changing the chord name

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:48 am

if you don't have any idea what to do, chances are good you don't have experience with what people have done before you. I don't think reading books or canvassing the 'nets is going to replace that bit.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:52 am

Nicksaf wrote: So I took a few chords from d dorian for the intro it goes Dm Gm Am, it's sounds good to me but is it ok to do so?

it sounds good to you, what else is there to say?

but no kidding, learn other people's songs and emulate what you like about them until things sink in. you won't get ideas in a vacuum, and no one can have an idea for you.

Nicksaf · Post by **Nicksaf** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:43 pm

Thanks everybody!

classic wrote:Why not just playing what your ears like?
Don't struggle around with theory, if not really needed.

Well first of all, I do most of all by ear, but alongside theory learning, in the specific case I have ideas but couldn't even start without theory, and this is what helped me initially, to start off at least.

classic wrote:More chords don't make one song rock more then another. Power Chords are simply the root and the 5th note. Changing the order of chords and the rhythm can be just as effective as changing the chord name

I did think of just replacing chords order, it a great idea, and I follow this opinion. Also, I did noticed what you sad about power chords changing(using cubase+vst),couldn't get why, you made it clear, now i know the reason why.

About listening to others, I do it a lot, but unfortunately it doesent work that well for me yet.
I am definately not asking for ideas, I think I wasn't specifical enough. I just want to know how to use chords and scales, cause I found myself stuck without that knowlege. Definately not asking for ideas just the formal side of things.

classic wrote:I would suggest trying that first to see if it is really the d dorian you meant, or do you really want what you are now playing, which is d aeolian?

Either way, you could try moving on from this progression with a G major (or power chord). It is just a suggestion, you may or may not like it. How about an F major chord? Tell us what you think.

Thanks, I wouldnt know that this is a d aolian, yeah I think that's what I want. If so which minor progressions known to work well with what I'm using? And are there any power chords that go well with it?

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:48 pm

I'm not saying just listen, I mean listen and copy it off the record, whole songs.

starting with undigested theory (Dorian?) has got you this far. At this point theory is a cart that isn't going to pull the horse of finding out what's done. Theory is descriptions of what people found out about what works. There is a more direct path to that, cop things off records and analyze what you found, rather than look at some text in a book, lacking context.

Bobbotov · Post by **Bobbotov** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:00 pm

jancivil wrote:I'm not saying just listen, I mean listen and copy it off the record, whole songs.

There is a more direct path to that, cop things off records and analyze what you found, rather than look at some text in a book, lacking context.

Best advice for multiple reasons: it trains your ear, you get familiar with numerous chord progressions, you learn something about diverse arrangements; harmonization, and melody. Do this several thousand times and you will be in good shape:-)

Nicksaf · Post by **Nicksaf** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:48 am

Guys it seems like a great advice it really is! But whenever I try to listen, I just don't hear what I'm supposed to hear, well enough. I even used and edited numerous midi files. And anyway I do it quite a lot. The true purpose of this post is to get an idea about the progression I used, and how to combine it with others... Your advices are good but they're just doesent work for me at this stage.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:33 am

well, if you haven't learned songs by other people, and thoroughly, you're getting ahead of yourself. at this stage.. you can't hear it because you haven't worked at hearing it.

Nicksaf · Post by **Nicksaf** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:58 pm

Well yeah that's the thing it's just seems not to work for me. For example metllicas unforgiven, one of my favorite songs. I listened to it countless times, I played it even, when I used to play guitar, stop due to a disability. Worked on the midi file too, seen all the components.
I know they use long intros that slowly build tension until it breaks and the verse starts. When I try doing something like it, nothing, it just doesn't get in my head.
Maybe i'm missing something :/

Aroused by JarJar · Post by **Aroused by JarJar** » Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:21 pm

Someone who has heard the song more than just in passing can verify, but doesn't that metallicka song basically alternate i-v in the relative minor (i.e. vi-iii in the relative major) then I-V in the major?

Nicksaf, try going to F major as I already suggested. If you alternate your Dm, Gm,Am part with a F Major, CMajor7 part, I bet you'll have what you are looking for. If you don't like that, try to tell us why not. Maybe it doesn't have anything to do with chords at all- a huge amount of music has essentially only two chords holding the thing together.

Nystul · Post by **Nystul** » Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:21 pm

I wouldn't be worried about building up from intro and arrangement issues, and going from acoustic to heavy drive and all of this. Sing yourself a nice little chorus melody and find the chords that go with it. Or even just a little one measure guitar riff and the chord that goes with it. Honestly I would start with breaking down something really simple, like Louie, Louie. The chords are really simple and not too far removed from your Dm, Gm, Am idea. Learn and understand the chords and melody, and then try to improvise some new melodies over the chords. When you can make a simple verse or chorus, then you can start to think about building up to something more sophisticated.

Nicksaf · Post by **Nicksaf** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:50 am

Thanks guys! You helped me finish my first instrumental to one of my close ones!
Aroused by JarJar, thanks for your advice! And for telling me its D aolian mode!
I used the chords Fm Gm and D#m for the verse, played with MusicLabs Real Strat's power chord settings and it seemed to work. The strat and Cubase sees them as different chords though. Works anyway

Nystul, thanks, that's a good advice!

Thanks everybody!

Hi everyone! This getting frustrating plz help!