I'm having a really hard time deciphering the chords that the organ plays in this track:
And here at the 0:12 mark:
What is their secret? I really love the sound and feeling of them, but I can't figure out what they are and how to play them. Can anybody give some pointers?
Thanks!
Help with some chords
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- KVRist
- 57 posts since 16 Jul, 2010 from Denmark
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
the harmony at 0:12 in the Dexter link is built thusly: minor triad, major seventh, augmented 11th. I think it's built on E. the +11 seems placed next to the fifth, which you hear promimently in the e piano.
another way to think of it is a polychord: E minor and Eb major (say in first inversion, G Bb Eb) at the same time.
as far as hearing it, that's a matter of experience, and study. I heard it, sang the tones and I understand what's happening, I've encountered such things before.
as per coming up with such a thing, well it's in their vocubalary, which is obtained from experience with music. That's kind of jazz vocabularry, minor/maj 7 and then that 'flat 5', but here up against the P5 so I might spell it A# rather than have two qualities of 'B'. Depends. One way you'd arrive at stacking thirds (there may be a 9th, F#), or by juxtaposing the other triad, same result. Couldn't tell you the composer's idea of it for sure.
another way to think of it is a polychord: E minor and Eb major (say in first inversion, G Bb Eb) at the same time.
as far as hearing it, that's a matter of experience, and study. I heard it, sang the tones and I understand what's happening, I've encountered such things before.
as per coming up with such a thing, well it's in their vocubalary, which is obtained from experience with music. That's kind of jazz vocabularry, minor/maj 7 and then that 'flat 5', but here up against the P5 so I might spell it A# rather than have two qualities of 'B'. Depends. One way you'd arrive at stacking thirds (there may be a 9th, F#), or by juxtaposing the other triad, same result. Couldn't tell you the composer's idea of it for sure.
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- KVRist
- 112 posts since 13 Dec, 2011
Jancivil, I hear all the pitches you're talking about but I think you're trying to glom white people harmony onto something it doesn't belong to.
and it's in C, and I've taken the transpositions into account analyzing your progression
I hear it sitting on tonic (C) with various drones and bleep riffs (which do not change) and other drones added in for decoration/dissonance. At :11 the pad dissonance that comes in is a G, slowwwly crossfading to a g# so you get that minor second interval briefly. Same with the major seventh you hear at :18, slowly fades is creating more and more dissonance. it's a crescendo on the leading tone while there is a drone on tonic. a combination of those two COULD be interpreted as a +^ chord but I think the composer is working intervalicaly relative to drones as opposed to harmonically in the standard way we think about harmony.
at :24 and :43 the note is definitely a bVII (is that what you're hearing as the Eb major? cause that would imply a b5 relative to the tonic - f# in the real key, Bb in yours -and that's not there) you could be hearing the Bb as the fifth of your Ebmajor, when it's really the root of a bVII...?
-[EDIT] yeah, it's going from a Cm to an EbM by moving the tonic down a whole step (not half as in E-Eb). and the i is indeed in first inversion.
-[EDITagain] but they're not traditional chord changes. it's contextualized with drones/ostinatos- the "shift" from i to III is caused by a single note C-Bb, so I am more inclined to interpret it melodically in the context of cm drones.
in my opinion this is yet another case where it's more appropriate to do a literal transcription of each layer's contribution rather than trying to force it to fit to a harmony
and it's in C, and I've taken the transpositions into account analyzing your progression
I hear it sitting on tonic (C) with various drones and bleep riffs (which do not change) and other drones added in for decoration/dissonance. At :11 the pad dissonance that comes in is a G, slowwwly crossfading to a g# so you get that minor second interval briefly. Same with the major seventh you hear at :18, slowly fades is creating more and more dissonance. it's a crescendo on the leading tone while there is a drone on tonic. a combination of those two COULD be interpreted as a +^ chord but I think the composer is working intervalicaly relative to drones as opposed to harmonically in the standard way we think about harmony.
at :24 and :43 the note is definitely a bVII (is that what you're hearing as the Eb major? cause that would imply a b5 relative to the tonic - f# in the real key, Bb in yours -and that's not there) you could be hearing the Bb as the fifth of your Ebmajor, when it's really the root of a bVII...?
-[EDIT] yeah, it's going from a Cm to an EbM by moving the tonic down a whole step (not half as in E-Eb). and the i is indeed in first inversion.
-[EDITagain] but they're not traditional chord changes. it's contextualized with drones/ostinatos- the "shift" from i to III is caused by a single note C-Bb, so I am more inclined to interpret it melodically in the context of cm drones.
in my opinion this is yet another case where it's more appropriate to do a literal transcription of each layer's contribution rather than trying to force it to fit to a harmony
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
I only listened at 0:12. Once. I'm not doing transcription for free generally... I clicked on it because I enjoy Dexter and think the scoring is pretty good. I know what happens there at 0:12.
that's the sonority at that moment. No question in my mind. 'harmonically' is context-based and you're free to delve into that. I'm not getting paid to do it.
that's the sonority at that moment. No question in my mind. 'harmonically' is context-based and you're free to delve into that. I'm not getting paid to do it.
Last edited by jancivil on Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
probably. but at 0:12, put an Eb major over an E minor and that's a sure path to getting *that* sound. If I put it in a chart I would say one of those two things I said, depending on who had to read it.shankfiddle wrote: another case where it's more appropriate to do a literal transcription of each layer's contribution rather than trying to force it to fit to a harmony
To get it exactamundo, here as in the other thing where guys guessed at triadic harmonies and wound up with nothing real useful, yes, you want to literally transcribe all the voicing. Not compelling to me, nothing to learn form it.