Using CantabilePro live with 40 subsessions and issues with subsession changes

[JoeyJR]

Hi there

I've purchased Cantabile Pro with the intention to use it with multiple VSTs for live gigs. I've come across an issue, which I'm hoping someone with Cantabile experience can help me with.

I have around 40 sub-sessions in a single session. The VSTs I'm using are: SampleTank 2.5, Korg Legacy Collection and Sylenth1. 80% of the subsessions are using the SampleTank VST. Each subsession has one of the racks in Solo with all other racks with an 'X' on them.

I'm using my Korg X50 as the midi controller, but using midi assignments to map sound changes on my X50 to each of my sub-sessions. It's brilliant that Cantabile can give you the control to do this.

The problems I'm having are:

a. Occasional stuck notes when changing the subsession via the X50 sound changes. When I hit the 'All Notes Off' on Canbile, this still does not resolve the issue. Even when I've changed sounds multiple times, the note/s linger on when returning back to the original sound (sometimes even other sounds).


b. When I change from one subsession to another, I hear lots of glitches before the new sound plays. It's like some other VSTs are temporarily switched on and then off again with the required rack being 'solo'ed after that.

Can someone help me out here please as this is making Cantabile for live gigs not an option at the moment. . Besides the above issues (which are probably something to do with my limited experience in Cantabile), I cannot fault Cantabile at all.


cheers
J

[Shabdahbriah]

system specs???

[JoeyJR]

Whoops...I'm using a 32-bit Dell Inspiron 6400 Intel Core Duo T2400 1.83 GHz laptop with 2GB RAM

[dluther]

Whoops...I'm using a 32-bit Dell Inspiron 6400 Intel Core Duo T2400 1.83 GHz laptop with 2GB RAM

What kind of audio and ASIO interface are you using?

[JoeyJR]

I'm using Asio4All and at present just using the headphone out from my laptop to get the sound out. My plan was to feed this into a mixer.

In the longer term I'll probably look for a different audio interface.

[dluther]

I'm using Asio4All and at present just using the headphone out from my laptop to get the sound out. My plan was to feed this into a mixer.

In the longer term I'll probably look for a different audio interface.

There's a section on KVR dedicated to computer setup, and they might have some advice for you as far as sound card (USB or PCMCIA), which is what makes laptops both handy and at the same time crippled...

I've noticed pops and crackles when I've got my ASIO buffer size too small, but increasing the buffer size also increases latency. Right now, I'm set up with a buffer size of 256 giving me a latency of 5.3ms, which is just about perfect for layering live and VST instruments. Setting it to 128 gave me 2.7ms of latency, but a bunch of pops and crackles in the audio. I know many people use ASIO4ALL, and it may have gotten quite usable since I last tried it, but I found 27ms of latency pretty much unusable in a live application. But that's just me -- YMMV.

I can't say if this is what you're experiencing, but it might. This is also probably a question you should pose for the developer (he's pretty good about answering technical support questions), so let us know what he has to say.

[extremusic]

I also get the same problems. Notes get stuck sometimes. It gets fixed just rebooting the sound engine, but that's not comfortable while performing, as you may know.

I've used from Asio4All to Firebox and Esi soundcards, and I always get to the same point: stuck notes and bugs when changing subsessions.

I think it's a matter of Cantabile and not of plugins nor sound engine.

Anymore feedback?

[TiUser]

Stuck notes usually point to midi issues.

Are you using midi filters in racks, probably changing something there from subsession to subsession? As far as I know this is not perfectly save... but the rack split/transpose settings should be subsession change save.

Midi routings from the midi routing table can also be critical.

I've programmed some midi processing myself and a usual problem is to keep things consistent when you change midi processing while notes are hold down. As long as midi routing/flow paths are static there are manageable solutions but when things get freely configurable it's very difficult without cutting off the notes pressed while you do a change...

There can be also issues in the midi implementations of the midi HW you are using.

During my evaluations I stumbled across an effect with "NoteOff". Some keyboards send "NoteOn" with "Velocity=0", some others send true "NoteOff" (including release velocity which is not provided by many keyboards)

As far as my experience with Cantabile goes it's keyboard display seems to have problems with real "NoteOff" but I didn't notice stuck notes so far.

To get more insight you can use "loopMidi" virtual midi cable driver and "MidiOx" software to analyze and get more insight.

Let me know if these hints help you finding some suspicious points in your sub-sessions or midi flow.

[extremusic]

Thanks Tiuser. As soon as posible I'll try those programs to check the MIDI flow. I'll keep you informed.