Fxpansion have a NEW drum synth on the way!

[C.Bennett]

More than likely. We'd like to get an preset expansion pack ecosystem going like we have for Synth Squad too.

Cool. See if you can get Rob Papen to do one for you.

But seriously. It's a great piece of gear and I look forward to seeing how it develops.

[contrast]

Regardless of it's other merits I am really frustrated by these synths, I seem to have run into several lately, that try to "help" with mapping CCs and host parameters and just make it either impossible or a pain in the ass to do what I actually want.

Do the CC mapping however you want, but at least all of the synth parameters should be exposed to the host automatically, and preferably everything editable on the sequencer should too.

I know most people don't care about this kind of stuff and nobody is going to bother doing it properly until someone makes a lot of money doing it properly, but there is no reason whatsoever that I shouldn't be able to (for example) map a lemur template to the whole sequencer and not have to mouse it at all, except that the plugin doesn't take the trivial step of providing i/o for that information.

(Ok, in fairness I recognize that it's not entirely "trivial" and there are usability concerns with some hosts, but it's not an unsolvable issue and mostly alleviated by putting the commonly mapped parameters first)

[UncleAge]

You know it looks like a solid effort all around. I'd love to see that step sequencer as a standalone in Live in front of an instrument-rack or drum-rack though

[SKoT_FX]

@contrast - The general problem is as follows:

* there are some hosts like Ableton Live that limit a plugin to 128 automate-able parameters.
* the name of an automation parameter is limited to 8 characters (! - this makes it impossible to describe effects parameters in BFD2, for example as we need to reference mixer channel, effect ID, and then the effect parameter).
* Modern plugins have 100's if not 1000's of parameters.

How to balance the "commonly used parameters" automation layout need with others need to customise the set of automation parameters, and keep the set of automation slots to a reasonable number so that your host sequencer isn't spammed with automation lanes?

In Tremor, we have a small set of assignable host automation slots (32) - enough that you have many degrees of freedom to sculpt sound dynamically (32 parameters!), the set is smallish enough to keep one's head wrapped around them (and menu sizes small enough to navigate quickly), Tremor comes with a "commonly used / easy map" if desired*, and power tweaker users can customise the mapping if they desire.

Yes, it's a compromise, but it would be far worse to have people complaining that their favourite parameter wasn't mapped, that the parameter space was too large to deal with. We believe it was the best position to take - providing a balance between clarity & customisability.

* Edit - ah, post-release issue fun, I see that didn't make it into the release package. Excuse me for a moment while I go raise a ticket on that...

[elipsis1]

More than likely. We'd like to get an preset expansion pack ecosystem going like we have for Synth Squad too.

Cool. See if you can get Rob Papen to do one for you.

But seriously. It's a great piece of gear and I look forward to seeing how it develops.

Hehe wow that's a jab now

[musikmachine]

So what about the cpu use, is it host dependant? Is was maxing it out in Cantabile Lite 64bit but about the same in FL and Maschine, i tested the same presets in each host and checked task manager as well. Sorry if i'm being dense but i'm a little under the weather right now.

[elipsis1]

It is VERY nice

I can't wait to hear it stretched to its limits

[pdxindy]

Good GUI, clear, easy to see and work with. Nice simple but effective sequencer. Synth sounds excellent and is flexible. IMO presets are better than some people are saying.

Things to go Hmmm about:

No way to disable an engine and still send the midi out. If you mute an engine, it mutes the midi out. So to drive an external synth on a pad, the only thing I found was to send that engine to a sub out to silence it but the cpu is still being used.

Is the snare supposed to be polyphonic? Turning up the decay can totally blitz the cpu

[Phase47]

More than likely. We'd like to get an preset expansion pack ecosystem going like we have for Synth Squad too.

A free update to presets when the designers get to know the system would go a loooooonggg way methinks.

[5Lives]

I wonder if any of this drum synthesis will make its way into Geist to combine with samples, like Rob Papen's Punch? That would definitely be cool. Looking forward to hearing some more audio demos too (Punch's demos are much more appealing to me, but Tremor's GUI is nicer in typical FXpansion fashion).

[contrast]

@contrast - The general problem is as follows:

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I'm sympathetic to the technical issues, but I feel like there are other solutions out there. As I'm sure you know, the decisions you guys have made as far as when to send parameters defeats the ability to pick 128 in Live, along with S1's Control Link, I imagine it breaks Automap, and I'm sure there are more incompatibilities out there. As I make heavy use of this stuff in my workflow it's quite frustrating when it is intentionally broken and I'm provided with a more cumbersome alternative.

In any case, even if you are certain this is the right path to be on, there are other options: the most obvious and widely compatible thing to do is to provide some static mapping of everything to NRPNs that can be enabled with a toggle. Or, you could provide OSC i/o, or support your some custom id-and-value over MIDI, or implement some proprietary communication with an iPad app you'd then sell on your own, or whatever.

I'm sure you guys have thought about these things and decided that they are not worth the investment, so all I can really do is complain so that you guys are aware that there is a market of at least one more person out there.

The DAW/plugin usability bar is still set relatively low IMO, and this sort of plugin is exactly the kind that would benefit most, so it is sad and disappointing that you guys have chosen to take a step backward instead of taking a leap forward. Doubly so because it's a quite nice plugin otherwise.

[keel]

Sound is only decent. Cpu usage is ridiculous. Price is high. Plugin steal space button in FL Studio and Studio one. All four most important things to me, failed. Eks Pro sounds much better. Cpu usage is pure 1%. It cost only 39$, and it doesn't steal your space button. Choice is easy..

[SKoT_FX]

@keel - from your profile, which states that you live inside a kick drum, I can tell kick drums are very important to you!

A comprehensive and necessarily somewhat more expensive package like Tremor may offer many things you don't need, like 8 separate synthesizers, a powerful poly-rhythmic step sequencer, the transmod system, and a large suite of pro effects; all of which do add to the cost, and steal CPU time from synthesizing more kick drums... . Flip side is they also add to the sonic possibilities.

Do explore the synthesizer's parameters a bit more - I'm certain you will be able to create what you need.

I agree we need to make Tremor's space-bar response disable-able

[keel]

kick drums are very important to you!

Yes they are. That's why I use my eks pro to do them. Best 39$ purchase I have ever made.

Do explore the synthesizer's parameters a bit more - I'm certain you will be able to create what you need.

Well, I spent three hours on it. I never use presets, so I always program my own sounds. That is more than just "explore". I tried really, but the sound is what is. Does not satisfy me. Sorry.

I agree we need to make Tremor's space-bar response disable-able

This is fun. I raised this matter up on your dcam sale thread. Soon, your friend started to offend me. He really claimed, that your plugins doesn't steal it!!!

All your plugins steal it. That's a fact. But the good thing is, if you have finally notice it, and you are going to do something about it.

FYI, this is the only reason, why I haven't bought dcam yet. Also your friend little insult to me, doesn't really raise your shares.

Sorry for my bad english..

[paterpeter]

a powerful poly-rhythmic step sequencer

Sadly, I wouldn't call it powerful. Far from it. There are two innovative things in it: poly-rhythm and the probability parameter. Both can add life to the rhythm, very nice!

But besides those the sequencer is one of the most basic sequencers I've used which lacks most of the essential (for me at least) features. I mean, you guys *know* how to build a good step sequencer (see Geist) and yet you decide to design Tremor's sequencer as minimalist as it is? Editing volume by dragging up and down only is a workflow killer. No shift parameter leaves the rhythms sterile. Only being able to modulate 4 parameters for 8 sounds is beyond "creative limitation". Also, more than 2 bars would have been nice. 4 or 8 bar patterns are common in my personal workflow.
The recommendation to have Geist drive Tremor isn't really a solution. I'd need to setup the MIDI links etc. Again, a workflow killer. And a great workflow is for me what makes the other FXpansion products to great.

Interestingly, I happen to like the sound of Tremor. Playing with the knobs is fun, and the sound is deliciously electro-quirky, so to say. It's not your clean Vengeance sound, of course. But is has life in it.

To sum it up: the lower half of Tremor is great, the upper half causes me a lot of pain and make me want to grab SKoT and Angus, shake them and scream: "Why, guys, WHY?". I already had a cozy place prepared in my account just for Tremor. But now I'm full of doubts.

Angus, SKoT: will the design of the sequencer stay as it is now? Or do you consider expanding it to a Geist-ish level in the (near) future?


BTW: I have nothing against FXpansion. They are extremely nice people who make great stuff. I know it - I have almost everything they sell. My account looks like a damn product catalog


Edit. Re midi drag and drop: I know that with poly-rhythms this could get tricky, but not all patterns are poly-rhythmic. My suggestion would be to allow pattern export per drag and drop anyway. I the pattern is poly-rhythmic, make the exported pattern have the length of the longest part and simply fill the other lanes up to that point. It won't keep the poly-rhythmic character completely in the exported pattern but at least there's pattern export.

Additionally, let the user choose the number of repetitions/bars to export. The exported pattern than wraps around as often as required to fill the desired number of bars. For example, assume a poly-rhythmic pattern with one engine lane of 5/16th and one lane of 7/16th. Set export length to "2 bars" and drag&drop the pattern to the sequencer. The created pattern should have 2 bars, containing 6 and a bit times the pattern of the first lane and 4 and a bit times the second lane. Or if export length is set to "4x" the pattern would be 28 16th long (longest lane (7/16) times number of repetitions), containing 4x the 7/16 pattern and 5 and a bit times the 5/16 pattern.

Now that I think of it, this would work great with poly-rhythms as it allows you to make the rhythm fall back into place after a desired amount of time.


Edit 2: I'd like to see a "free running" mode for the local LFOs. I know that this would make them behave like global LFOs, but only two free running LFOs for 8 sounds is too limiting IMO. Also, the global LFO settings are not stored with the drum, so sound designers cannot reproducibly use it in their sounds.