ValhallaÜberMod

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
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KVRAF

Topic Starter

3426 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Pacific NW

Post Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:51 pm

hibidy wrote:
valhallasound wrote:
hibidy wrote:I can't wait for what is next! :wheee:
One long word:

ÜberPingPongDelays.

Sean Costello
r u playin' with me :evil: ????
Nope. Adding a new control to the next rev of ÜberMod. I spent all day in the UW library today working on it. Still a little more work to do, but when I am done, ÜberMod will have the ability to turn any of the existing modes into a ping pong delay, or ping ponging clusters of delays, or ping ponged diffusion delays, or I don't know what all this control will do, but it is cool. It can also reverse the stereo image of the first delays, for a really wide sound.

I need to do more testing, and figure out what happens when older presets are loaded, as the new control isn't in those presets. Honestly, this is breaking new ground for me, as I've never added a control to a plugin after it was released. Andy from Cytomic tipped me to the fact that it won't break existing content, as long as you put the new control at the end of the parameter list, so I figured I'd give it a shot.

Luckily enough, there was a bit of spare room in the GUI, in the WARP section (which was originally called the MISC section, but WARP sounds cooler :D ). The control will be a combo box, to select the desired "input panning" mode. Turn up the fbMix to 100%, and set InputPan to Left or Right, and any of the delay modes will start ping ponging like crazy.

You might have been asking about long term plans. Those are still some months away. I'm thinking about the next week. Got some long term plans too, of course, but right now I'm focusing on the new ÜberMod rev.

Sean Costello

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

3426 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Pacific NW

Post Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:10 pm

Sampleconstruct wrote:
valhallasound wrote:
Sampleconstruct wrote:Here is an experiment with 4 Synth tracks each one using it's own ÜberMod with individual synced-taps-settings:
I've come to expect sheer beauty from your examples, Simon, and once again you don't disappoint. Thanks for posting this!

Sean Costello
My pleasure Sean, since I uploaded my first ÜberMod Demo on Decembre 15 my ÜberMod demos got +12.500 listeners which shows the positive hype around your new Baby.
:shock:

That's a LOT of listeners.

And yet my favorite example, the Ubermodded Guzheng, only has 349 listeners. I LOVE that track, and have listened to it over and over. C'mon, people, get yr Guzheng on!!!

Sean Costello

KVRAF
42530 posts since 21 Dec, 2005

Post Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:18 pm

valhallasound wrote:
hibidy wrote:
valhallasound wrote:
hibidy wrote:I can't wait for what is next! :wheee:
One long word:

ÜberPingPongDelays.

Sean Costello
r u playin' with me :evil: ????
Nope. Adding a new control to the next rev of ÜberMod. I spent all day in the UW library today working on it. Still a little more work to do, but when I am done, ÜberMod will have the ability to turn any of the existing modes into a ping pong delay, or ping ponging clusters of delays, or ping ponged diffusion delays, or I don't know what all this control will do, but it is cool. It can also reverse the stereo image of the first delays, for a really wide sound.

I need to do more testing, and figure out what happens when older presets are loaded, as the new control isn't in those presets. Honestly, this is breaking new ground for me, as I've never added a control to a plugin after it was released. Andy from Cytomic tipped me to the fact that it won't break existing content, as long as you put the new control at the end of the parameter list, so I figured I'd give it a shot.

Luckily enough, there was a bit of spare room in the GUI, in the WARP section (which was originally called the MISC section, but WARP sounds cooler :D ). The control will be a combo box, to select the desired "input panning" mode. Turn up the fbMix to 100%, and set InputPan to Left or Right, and any of the delay modes will start ping ponging like crazy.

You might have been asking about long term plans. Those are still some months away. I'm thinking about the next week. Got some long term plans too, of course, but right now I'm focusing on the new ÜberMod rev.

Sean Costello
:faints: :hyper:

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KVRAF
15667 posts since 12 Oct, 2008 from Here and there

Post Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:21 pm

valhallasound wrote:
Sampleconstruct wrote:
valhallasound wrote:
Sampleconstruct wrote:Here is an experiment with 4 Synth tracks each one using it's own ÜberMod with individual synced-taps-settings:
I've come to expect sheer beauty from your examples, Simon, and once again you don't disappoint. Thanks for posting this!

Sean Costello
My pleasure Sean, since I uploaded my first ÜberMod Demo on Decembre 15 my ÜberMod demos got +12.500 listeners which shows the positive hype around your new Baby.
:shock:

That's a LOT of listeners.

And yet my favorite example, the Ubermodded Guzheng, only has 349 listeners. I LOVE that track, and have listened to it over and over. C'mon, people, get yr Guzheng on!!!

Sean Costello
I already put the Guzheng second in the widget to get some more plays for it - there was a ÜberMod review in a german magazine, they linked the 3 most technical demos so those got some heavy airplay....

KVRist
61 posts since 8 Jun, 2006

Post Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:04 am

Sean,

for the ÜberMod docs, could we get a pointer to a "classic" preset for each of the modes with color commentary? i guess i'm looking for more of the backstory behind the modes, and for insight into how you imagine using each mode given your deep knowledge of them.

actually, what i really want is the "Sean's-efxperience-pill". would that be red or blue? :^)

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KVRAF
5823 posts since 25 May, 2002 from Bobo-dioulasso\BF__Geneva/CH

Post Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:09 pm

bz0 wrote:actually, what i really want is the "Sean's-efxperience-pill". would that be red or blue? :^)
- refering to "the matrix"'? :lol: ...that sound subttle !

User avatar
KVRAF

Topic Starter

3426 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Pacific NW

Post Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:58 pm

bz0 wrote:Sean,

for the ÜberMod docs, could we get a pointer to a "classic" preset for each of the modes with color commentary? i guess i'm looking for more of the backstory behind the modes, and for insight into how you imagine using each mode given your deep knowledge of them.
Some of the modes go beyond rational description. They were fueled by too much coffee.

Other ÜberMod modes were definitely inspired by pre-existing things:

- 2TapChorus: Dimension D, if the Dimension D had really long delay lines, diffusion, overdrive, and a bunch of other tricks I know about (the fbMix, for example, comes from Gerzon's reverb work in the early 1970's).

- 4TapEnsemble: VP330 ensemble. Which is essentially 2 Dim Ds in parallel, with added sine modulation for the vibrato component. I think this gave me the idea many years ago, that the Dimension D type algorithm could be expanded in parallel to arbitrary levels of complexity.

- SuperSix: Extending the Dimension D model to producing unison effects, similar to the SuperSaw waveform on the JP8000.

- 6TapRandom: The Chorus/Echo program on the PCM70. I use far more diffusion, and have different controls, and different modulation (the 6TapRandom modulation is randomized, but still does the Dimension antiphase thing). Still, the idea of randomized delay taps with diffusion in the front was very Lexicon inspired.

- DualEnsemble: two Solinas, one panned left, one panned right.

- 8Tap: reading about the Swarmatron, hearing the examples from that super spendy synth, and thinking "I could make a Dimensional chorus that does that."

- 16Phase: I think some Roland rackmount had a version of this. I added slow and fast oscillators, so it is closer to a string ensemble with more phases.

- 16Tap: 8 parallel Dim Ds.

- 32Tap: various Eventide multitap/ultratap algorithms over the years. The Eclipse UltraTap2 (at least according to the manual - I've never played with an Eventide in person) has up to 36 taps, and a 4 stage diffusor. I added modulation to all the taps, so it was like 16 Dimension Ds in parallel, and I created a much more complicated diffusion network with modulation, as I had figured this out for Shimmer. In turn, I think that the original Eventide multitap algorithms on the SP2016 were inspired by the Nonlin2 algorithm in the AMS RMX16 reverb. I don't know if any of the Eventide multitap modes modulated the taps, so that seemed like a natural progression to me.

All of the above have their inspiration in various "vintage" boxes, but got combined and recombined as I saw fit. I'm a historian when it comes to signal processing, but I also take a postmodern approach. The past is a place to take inspiration from, but it isn't like the audio industry reached some Platonic ideal a few decades ago. Emulating the past in precise detail doesn't really interest me, and I'm not aiming for strict emulations with any of the ÜberMod modes. I'd rather take the good ideas, mix them up with my own good ideas, and create some crazy chimera of a plugin that leaves the realms of sanity behind.

I'll post presets as the documentation continues.

Sean Costello

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KVRAF
5554 posts since 13 Feb, 2006 from Wiesmoor, Germany

Post Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:03 pm

valhallasound wrote:All of the above have their inspiration in various "vintage" boxes, but got combined and recombined as I saw fit. I'm a historian when it comes to signal processing, but I also take a postmodern approach. The past is a place to take inspiration from, but it isn't like the audio industry reached some Platonic ideal a few decades ago. Emulating the past in precise detail doesn't really interest me, and I'm not aiming for strict emulations with any of the ÜberMod modes. I'd rather take the good ideas, mix them up with my own good ideas, and create some crazy chimera of a plugin that leaves the realms of sanity behind.
+1
I wish more developers would think like that :)

Cheers
Dennis

User avatar
KVRAF
2083 posts since 28 Feb, 2011

Post Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:07 pm

valhallasound wrote:
hibidy wrote:
valhallasound wrote:
hibidy wrote:I can't wait for what is next! :wheee:
One long word:

ÜberPingPongDelays.

Sean Costello
r u playin' with me :evil: ????
Nope. Adding a new control to the next rev of ÜberMod. I spent all day in the UW library today working on it. Still a little more work to do, but when I am done, ÜberMod will have the ability to turn any of the existing modes into a ping pong delay, or ping ponging clusters of delays, or ping ponged diffusion delays, or I don't know what all this control will do, but it is cool. It can also reverse the stereo image of the first delays, for a really wide sound.

I need to do more testing, and figure out what happens when older presets are loaded, as the new control isn't in those presets. Honestly, this is breaking new ground for me, as I've never added a control to a plugin after it was released. Andy from Cytomic tipped me to the fact that it won't break existing content, as long as you put the new control at the end of the parameter list, so I figured I'd give it a shot.

Luckily enough, there was a bit of spare room in the GUI, in the WARP section (which was originally called the MISC section, but WARP sounds cooler :D ). The control will be a combo box, to select the desired "input panning" mode. Turn up the fbMix to 100%, and set InputPan to Left or Right, and any of the delay modes will start ping ponging like crazy.

You might have been asking about long term plans. Those are still some months away. I'm thinking about the next week. Got some long term plans too, of course, but right now I'm focusing on the new ÜberMod rev.

Sean Costello
Yes!! So happy about this... I am totally enjoying your work Sean...I'm using the reverbs in every track now.
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KVRist
61 posts since 8 Jun, 2006

Post Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:28 pm

just stumbled onto this starting from an init preset while exploring the modes:

<ValhallaUberMod pluginVersion="1.0.0" presetName="3-5-1" Mix="0.5" Depth="1" StereoWidth="0.5" Delay="0.00999999978" Feedback="0" Spread="0" Slope="0.5" Skew="0.5" Random="0" TapGain="0.5" Diffusion="0.5" DiffSize="0.0204081628" DiffModRate="0.0490490496" DiffModDepth="0.5" LowCut="0" HighCut="1" SpatialXover="0.145728648" DetuneRate="0.0490490496" DetuneDepth="0.5" VibratoRate="0.248120308" VibratoDepth="0" OverMod="0.373737365" DriveInGain="0.375" DriveOutGain="0.75" DriveNoiseGain="0.333333343" FeedbackRotate="0.5" SmoothingTime="0.0990990996" ColorMode="0" DelaySync="0.0588235296" type="0.0416666679" DiffEnable="0" Drive="0" DrivePrePost="1" Speed="0"/>

reminds me of the old guy wondering about thermos bottles: "keeps hot stuff hot. keeps cold stuff cold... how does it know?".

so, 3-5-1: how does it know? :^)

ps- mac Reaper vst ÜberMod doesn't register keyboard input after double-clicking param text. au works. anyone else see this?

KVRist
61 posts since 8 Jun, 2006

Post Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:45 pm

valhallasound wrote:Some of the modes go beyond rational description. They were fueled by too much coffee.
the Java Goddess was *very* kind.
Other ÜberMod modes were definitely inspired by pre-existing things:[...]
thanks very much for the fascinating background bits Sean. i love that stuff. looking forward to the coming docs & patches. hope your writing Muse is kind. i know i'm not alone in enjoying that aspect of your talents a great deal.

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

3426 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Pacific NW

Post Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:15 pm

bz0 wrote:just stumbled onto this starting from an init preset while exploring the modes:

<ValhallaUberMod pluginVersion="1.0.0" presetName="3-5-1" Mix="0.5" Depth="1" StereoWidth="0.5" Delay="0.00999999978" Feedback="0" Spread="0" Slope="0.5" Skew="0.5" Random="0" TapGain="0.5" Diffusion="0.5" DiffSize="0.0204081628" DiffModRate="0.0490490496" DiffModDepth="0.5" LowCut="0" HighCut="1" SpatialXover="0.145728648" DetuneRate="0.0490490496" DetuneDepth="0.5" VibratoRate="0.248120308" VibratoDepth="0" OverMod="0.373737365" DriveInGain="0.375" DriveOutGain="0.75" DriveNoiseGain="0.333333343" FeedbackRotate="0.5" SmoothingTime="0.0990990996" ColorMode="0" DelaySync="0.0588235296" type="0.0416666679" DiffEnable="0" Drive="0" DrivePrePost="1" Speed="0"/>

reminds me of the old guy wondering about thermos bottles: "keeps hot stuff hot. keeps cold stuff cold... how does it know?".

so, 3-5-1: how does it know? :^)
It doesn't know. Turn up the OverMod high enough, and the triangle LFOs will start spitting out pitch changes.

A decent pitch shifter will use sawtooth wave modulation of a delay line, and fade the sound in and out when the sawtooth "resets" (i.e. jumps from the high value back down to the low value). ÜberMod isn't a decent pitch shifter. It is a chorus that can have ridiculous modulation depths for its triangle wave LFOs. The triangle waves don't reset, they just start going backwards, which will result in the "reverse" pitch shift. Mind you, the triangle won't pitch shift things nice and neatly, so the "reverse" pitch shift might not make sense musically. But sometimes you can stumble upon some weird settings that create musical intervals.
ps- mac Reaper vst ÜberMod doesn't register keyboard input after double-clicking param text. au works. anyone else see this?
That happens in some versions of the VST. I need to track down the reason. It is a bug in the Juce framework, but I think that Andrew from Cytomic might have figured out a solution, so I'll check the Juce forums.

Sean Costello

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KVRAF
5865 posts since 9 Jan, 2003 from Saint Louis MO

Post Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:01 pm

[quote="valhallasound"]A decent pitch shifter will use sawtooth wave modulation of a delay line, and fade the sound in and out when the sawtooth "resets" (i.e. jumps from the high value back down to the low value). ÜberMod isn't a decent pitch shifter. It is a chorus that can have ridiculous modulation depths for its triangle wave LFOs. The triangle waves don't reset, they just start going backwards, which will result in the "reverse" pitch shift. Mind you, the triangle won't pitch shift things nice and neatly, so the "reverse" pitch shift might not make sense musically. But sometimes you can stumble upon some weird settings that create musical intervals. /quote]

Cool, I was wondering how it was doing this. I never knew that about pitch shifters. :)

I find it fun to make pitch-shifting effects like this and give it some (or a lot) of feedback... and then maybe to throw multiple instances of UberMod in series running the same patch. :D

<ValhallaUberMod pluginVersion="1.0.0" presetName="Clusterious" Mix="0.717999995" Depth="1" StereoWidth="0.598500013" Delay="0.059799999" Feedback="0.887000024" Spread="0.5" Slope="0.476000011" Skew="0.671999991" Random="0" TapGain="0.5" Diffusion="0" DiffSize="0.216326535" DiffModRate="0.0490490496" DiffModDepth="0.5" LowCut="0.0502512567" HighCut="0.791959822" SpatialXover="0.582914591" DetuneRate="0.248248249" DetuneDepth="0.5" VibratoRate="0.248120308" VibratoDepth="0" OverMod="0.373737365" DriveInGain="0.495833337" DriveOutGain="0.558333337" DriveNoiseGain="0" FeedbackRotate="0.504000008" SmoothingTime="0" ColorMode="0" DelaySync="0.764705896" type="0.25" DiffEnable="0" Drive="0" DrivePrePost="1" Speed="0"/>

KVRist
61 posts since 8 Jun, 2006

Post Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:19 am

the surprising bit for me is that the pitch change is static for the ramp time of the triangle lfo. does this mean that the modulation is created by adding an offset to the read position in the delay buffer? i expected modulation to be multiplying the pitch somehow, which would produce smoothly changing pitch shifts. are there different modulation methods in different modes? do these questions make sense? :^)

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

3426 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Pacific NW

Post Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:28 am

bz0 wrote:the surprising bit for me is that the pitch change is static for the ramp time of the triangle lfo. does this mean that the modulation is created by adding an offset to the read position in the delay buffer? i expected modulation to be multiplying the pitch somehow, which would produce smoothly changing pitch shifts. are there different modulation methods in different modes? do these questions make sense? :^)
This is how modulation works with delay buffers. A triangle oscillator has a constant up and down slope. This constant slope will correspond to a constant velocity difference between the write pointer and the read pointer(s), and this constant velocity difference produces a constant pitch change. It will be a different pitch change depending on whether the read pointer is getting closer to the write pointer (pitch shifted up) or getting further away (pitch shifted down).

It is kinda confusing, as modulating a VCO in a synth by a triangle LFO will result in smoothly changing pitch shifts, more of a vibrato sound, with slightly less rounding than a sine LFO. Modulating a VCO by a sawtooth wave produces a pitch that goes up (or down) and then resets at the beginning, as opposed to the constant pitch shift this produces when modulating the delay time of a buffer read pointer. This all has to do with math and calculus and integration and the like, but I'm not that good at math, and would do a crappy job of explaining this with math terms.

The 2TapRandom, 4TapEnsemble, SuperSix, 8Tap, 16Tap, and 32Tap modes all use triangle LFOs for their slow modulation, so you will get this constant pitch shifting. 6TapRandom uses randomized triangles, with constant slope but different reset times, so you will get constant pitch shifting but with randomized up shift/down shift times. DualEnsemble and 16Phase use multiphase sine LFOs for their slow modulation, which will result in smoothly changing pitches (vibrato), as opposed to the alternating up/down pitches of triangle modulation. All of the modes use sine oscillators for the fast/vibrato modulation, so if you want this sort of sound, you can always turn MOD SlowDepth to 0% and turn up the Mod VibDepth control.

Sean Costello

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