Chords that fit together (chord progressions)

[jontah]

Hi there!

I'm currently studying music, and we have a few theory lessons in school..

But, I'm always coming to the problem that I don't know where to go from each chord, let's say I'm playing a Bb or F or C chord, I want to read up on where I can move in order to make it sound "stable" and good.. I've heared about dominants and stuff, "cadences" I believe it's called?

Any tips on HOW I can struggle with this in the right way? I really want to evolve my chords into something harmonically and express myself in the right way throught the piano. That's my big dream after all.

How do you practice on this?

Any tutorials on this?

A HUGE thank you if you reply with any good answers that'll help me!!

[sjm]

circle of fifths would be a good start

[tapper mike]

Terms like "stable" are relative to genre' There are practices of "styles" that can be applied to other styles. And there are best practices relating to 'styles' that don't have "crossover"

Much of it has to do with your ear and culture as well as abilities. If you can't physically perform a solid rhythm then regardless of how wonderful the progression may appear on paper it won't translate to your head or your fingers.

While many songs use common chord progressions there are also all to many more that embelish the progression or use less familiar progressions.

If you really want to get a handle on chord progressions seek out material you are already familiar with. There is a vast wealth of knowledge found in covering familiar artists. Don't try to over analyze the song/progression. Instead focus on mastering it for it's performance value. Then look back on the piece and study it's progression for what relevance it may have.

[tapper mike]

circle of fifths would be a good start

I've never heard a popular song that soley used the circle of 5ths as a means of progression aside from a small section of "Eugenes Trich Bag" as performed by Steve Vai.

Most progressions limit the number of keys. Although there are quite a number of jazz standards that back cycle by whole tones using ii-V or ii-V-I

[sjm]

No, but it tells you what's related and works together. Seeing as it sounds like the OP has no idea, it's a good place to start.

Second the suggestion to look at other songs, esp. Beatles if you're into popular music of any kind.

[JumpingJackFlash]

Get a good book on harmony.
I recommend this (get it half price if you tell them you won't photocopy it).

[jontah]

Get a good book on harmony.
I recommend this (get it half price if you tell them you won't photocopy it).

Funny thing is that I know about the circle of fifth, in fact I know it without looking on the paper, sure it helps, but imo it sounds REALLY booring , even if I combine chords that are close to the "family" of that chord. There must be another way?

[jontah]

Terms like "stable" are relative to genre' There are practices of "styles" that can be applied to other styles. And there are best practices relating to 'styles' that don't have "crossover"

Much of it has to do with your ear and culture as well as abilities. If you can't physically perform a solid rhythm then regardless of how wonderful the progression may appear on paper it won't translate to your head or your fingers.

While many songs use common chord progressions there are also all to many more that embelish the progression or use less familiar progressions.

If you really want to get a handle on chord progressions seek out material you are already familiar with. There is a vast wealth of knowledge found in covering familiar artists. Don't try to over analyze the song/progression. Instead focus on mastering it for it's performance value. Then look back on the piece and study it's progression for what relevance it may have.

I have literally copied and tried alot of songs but it doesnt really help me as I want to know other chords fitting aswell, this way really limits you, well, sure you'll learn THAT specific chord combination but I'm looking to learn the most. And alot of songs use just 2-4 chords which won't learn you different combinations, since almost every chord has its own "feeling"/mode, I want to be able to express myself in different ways depending on the overall that the chord gives/expresses.

[tapper mike]

Chords progressions don't define expression. Expression defines expression. There are happy 12 bar blues songs there are sad twelve bar blues songs and it's still the same 12 bar blues progression.

If you listen to works of great emotive content and then do a harmonic analysis of the piece you will find no great hidden theoretical harmonic mystery revealed that is consistent with other pieces of great emotive content.

Many here will argue that Key's define emotive values. I personally disagree. I think if you associate a key with an emotive value then you may impart the emotive quality of the key. It's kind of self fullfiling profecy. Some instruments work better in some keys then in others.

More over it is rhythm, rhythmic structure meter and use of dynamics that imparts emotive qualities of a piece. The way accents are used, syncopation, rubato, retarding and accelerating the beat so it feels like a rollercoaster ride as opposed to straight linear meter. And much much more.

There is a very good book albeit dated by today's standards
http://www.amazon.com/Arranging-Techniq ... 082561130X

Where he delves into the values of expressive playing for emotive values and gets down to nuts and bolts of how this is accomplished.

If you are looking at harmonic value of a piece and assuming that's all it takes then you only have one very small portion of the pie. If you are going through the motions of playing chord progressions for the sake of playing the progression with the hope it will open the sky and a greater truth will be revealed then you are still only getting one small portion of the equation.

It's only when you put together all the elements. Especially emotive values such as articulation and all the expressive capacities like dynamics and meter that a song comes to life.

While I regret it now. As a band leader I'd have to go through great lengths to get some of the musicians working under me to bring up thier emotional commitment. Some times it meant pissing them off because they had lost focus and wanted to just go through the motions. A song that may seem mediocre harmonically can be saved by the emotive force of it's performance. However even the most complex compositions/arrangements never survive a poor performance.

[qa2pir]

listen to some nobuo uematsu, he's a wizard with chords, melodies, harmonic leaps, transitions, all that stuff.

[wrench45us]

a good harmony book will talk about chord substitutions; this is where alternatives to circle of 5th back cycling and such comes in -- usually starting with tritone substitutions

the basics of most chord progression is the use of a few common notes

more advanced get into the upper structure chord tones or tension notes

If it's to your taste I would suggest studying the songs of Antonio Carlos Jobim

I would also suggest the
http://www.amazon.com/Harmonic-Language ... B002ACZZWE

It has a slightly different intent, but very closely related

[Bronto Scorpio]

nobuo uematsu

One of the greatest living composers imo
Sadly many people don't take him seriously because he "just" makes music for video games.

Sorry for the OT!

Cheers
Dennis

[shankfiddle]

Funny thing is that I know about the circle of fifth, in fact I know it without looking on the paper, sure it helps, but imo it sounds REALLY booring , even if I combine chords that are close to the "family" of that chord. There must be another way?

...I don't know where to go from each chord, let's say I'm playing a Bb or F or C chord, I want to read up on where I can move in order to make it sound "stable" and good.. I've heared about dominants and stuff, "cadences" I believe it's called?

I think you are confusing yourcircles. You may know about and be able to play the chromatic circle (all 12 tones), but what you need to learn (especially if you still don't know terms like "dominant" or "cadences") is the diatonic circle, and how to construct diatonic chords by stacking thirds. Learning about the DIATONIC circle of fifths progressions will help you immensely in coming up with longer progressions. http://www.musictheory.net/lessons/46

Then learn the diatonic circle for minor. Then you can use diatonic chords of the modes of these scales. Then you can use the same third-stacking to find diatonic chords for any scale.

and then IF you completely understand western harmony and are still bored with it and want to "struggle" in a new way, then look into Schoenburg's 12-tone method. Try it once before you dismiss it.

[jancivil]

Get a good book on harmony.
I recommend this (get it half price if you tell them you won't photocopy it).

You can find good books on harmony in your public library probably.

[jancivil]

Any tips on HOW I can struggle with this in the right way? I really want to evolve my chords into something harmonically...

How do you practice on this?

I learned about things that worked for me by learning what actually happened on the recording by copying it, for example finding out on a guitar what the chords and other parts actually were. Sometimes I had a fake book with the changes, supposedly, oftimes I did not. By the time I had information that codified 'chord movement' into 'progressions' and such, I had some cause and effect, I had learned to detect patterns and had a working sense of 'common' practices (and I had learned to co-ordinate hands and hearing)...

I would not personally expect that from information alone. I never had the experience of trying to obtain this kind of result from a book in the first place, so I'm unsure what to say to that. If you are looking for information to click

let's say I'm playing a Bb or F or C chord, I want to read up on...

where the experience with music so far hasn't...
I mean the reading isn't doing, it's just some words describing what's believed to have worked. You don't know it works until you experience that it does, for you, then you investigate the hows and whys and wherefores... some of it is going to click intuitively from having seen it work consistently.

I think the thing to do is get some hands-on and learn songs that would work for you as a model, in tandem with some useful information, 'a good book on harmony'...