Fxpansion have a NEW drum synth on the way!

[SKoT_FX]

@_leras - that's a bit unfair, that's exactly what we're doing by asking people what they feel is missing, and asking for audio examples to guide us.

There *are* "standard" drum machine sound presets - one kick preset is even blatantly named 909. One could argue those have been common targets for many years for synths and exist in zillions of sample libraries - our designers were naturally excited by the new places Tremor could go.

[Phase47]

One could argue those have been common targets for many years for synths and exist in zillions of sample libraries - our designers were naturally excited by the new places Tremor could go.

With this said, I'm left puzzled, seriously, with the question of why didn't they go there? Because where they mostly went was all through the same overloaded bit-crushing fuzzbox bank of effects. At least that's what it sounds like, and that's not a new place.

If this thing is capable of vintage emulation, or really organic analog percussion like something you might get out of a Buchla or a Doepfer, or more bread-n-butter (read: usable and musical) sounds, then why didn't they go there too? Or better yet, why not really take it somewhere new?

And I do love the sequencer on Tremor, but I also have to side with the ones saying that you absolutely must have the drag midi to daw functionality - you'll just have to put your brightest on that and figure out a way to deal with somehow getting that to work. There must be some elegant solution somewhere.

Talk is cheap, I agree - now put up some presets that don't sound dull and distorted. Show me some beautiful kicks that aren't blown out. Show me some snappy claps and punchy analog snares. Exotic analog percussion. Still, if Himalaya can't get some gorgeous, lush, or even edgy analog beauty out of this thing then who can? I love his work. So make me a believer - because I want to believe.

Edit: in addition to the above, how about some Alva Noto style glitch digital/analog percussion, or some FM-like clang or mallets, or some Nuebaten-style percussion, some Gamelan stuff, or something subtle like Cliff Martinez did for the Solaris soundtrack...

[icedsushi]

With this said, I'm left puzzled, seriously, with the question of why didn't they go there? Because where they mostly went was all through the same overloaded bit-crushing fuzzbox bank of effects. At least that's what it sounds like, and that's not a new place.

OMG, my thoughts exactly! The presets are so overly distorted, preamps driven so hard, if there were a variation in velocity, you would barely hear it. I think part of it is you really have to be extra careful your gain staging with this thing, it's real easy for all the areas of overdrive to add up quickly & get out of hand before you know it. There's gain/distortion controls pre-filter, at the filter itself, post filter, and then don't forget the distortion effect itself. That's 4 stages of distortion per voice! It's kind of difficult to get the levels of clean sounds up high enough because there's no clean gain aside from the oscillator controls themselves or using up an FX slot with the gain plugin.

And I do love the sequencer on Tremor, but I also have to side with the ones saying that you absolutely must have the drag midi to daw functionality - you'll just have to put your brightest on that and figure out a way to deal with somehow getting that to work. There must be some elegant solution somewhere.

A must have. Even if pattern saving or pattern import/export with Geist never happens, I could be fully satisfied if drag & drop midi comes around. This is much more important than being able to save/import patterns if I have to choose.

Talk is cheap, I agree - now put up some presets that don't sound dull and distorted. Show me some beautiful kicks that aren't blown out. Show me some snappy claps and punchy analog snares. Exotic analog percussion.

Yep, I mean I suppose we could provide some examples but it really shouldn't be so hard to understand what we could hear more of. It doesnt have to be so specific or pigeonhole Tremor to a genre. I would just like to see some expansion kits for Tremor that are new school analog, full, round, crisp, punchy & larger than life without the brittle, crunchy harshness like stepping on broken glass.

Let's see some kits that are examples more of a hifi sound. I like that phrase "blown out", it made me LOL. It's the perfect short description of the sound of the kits & presets that come with Tremor.

Coming up with cleaner sounds that still punch is more of a challenge, and like I said above, I believe part of that is due to the gain staging. Every gain stage distorts, even at a low level of drive. The cumulative effect can be more than intended. And the filter without gain can really reduce volume, so you almost need to resort to putting a gain plugin on every engine & disable pre, post or both for clean sounds.

[PraxisCat]

Phase 47, please don't take this the wrong way, but the thing has alot of flexibility with each drum having a pretty comprehensive drum synth under the hood. I think focusing to much on presets can often be a distraction in terms of trying out what an instrument is capable of. I think it was actually a pretty genius thing what U-he did in terms of not providing presets at first and letting people explore the instrument for what it was with Diva. It pushed people to explore the synth a bit more than they would normally.

I am doing my running through it right now, and I have been waiting for something like this to come along for a long time. There is a great deal of depth here but like most things the real rewards come from digging in. I actually took off some of the effects to see what it sounds like, and it is a bit of a monster. D16 should be seriously freaking out right now. This is more of a real instrument than their collection of vintage x0x box emulations. Just click on one of the drums, focus on it. Take off the effects, and tweak away. I was just flat out floored by doing this to just the kick drum.

[whitecloud]

I remember back in the 80's those old analog drum boxes were regarded as toys. Funny how they are held with such high regard for such a long time after that initial perception. Sure a sample module or two would be cool and all, but if you are one that feels that Tremor isn't capable of non distorted organic sounds
then what does that leave? dissatisfaction with the rest of the synth engine and I wouldn't buy it just because they added a few sample modules and I hated the rest of the instrument. If it is not your cup of tea search for or stick with what is more up your alley. The reality is this thread is not going to enact major changes or overhauls in Tremor. Perhaps a few more usable features sure. I look around at several other forums and see much shorter threads and not as much negative comments and impressions. The tit for tat is not going to solve much
but ones that are on the fence and feel that some reasonable tweaks and changes
might be enough to sway in favor of purchasing Tremor. There has been some valid and useful suggestions that may lead to a reality. As i dig into it more(I have haven't spent much time yet) I will offer my suggestions and decide if Tremor is for me. I noticed right off no drag and drop and that almost immediately not wanting to even demo it. Some have come to realize that might not be an easy
feature to incorporate in Tremor based on the type of sequencer it is. I wonder if another approach might be easier to include. A Song mode. Not like Geist's
but a streamline window that would allow patterns to be put in some kind of order and number of instances, than that could be a file of consecutive patterns to drag and drop. After all that has been said FX really should listen though
and provide a few presets that will possibly show the side of Tremor many what to hear. They asked for examples from fellow forumites, but I think they know what is what some want to hear and that is a legitimate request.

I would prefer a fully functional demo with save and load with a very short
time limit of say a week or so. I bet one could spend a couple days to decide to buy or not. I rather have it this way then use it for a month or so
without being able to save/load presets and save midi learn assignments
This would allow a faster workflow in a DAW recording environment and see how well it plays with other tracks and instruments instead of going back and having to set things up all over again, then the moment/inspiration is lost

[SKoT_FX]

Phase47 - to my ear those sorts of sounds are covered; hence why I'm double checking by asking for more concrete examples as it seems some people* want to hear a more particular style. My offer was exactly to try to create examples and presets in the general vicinity of what I understand you are after, but to get that understanding, I need more than a few descriptors like 909 /round / clean. All of those can be interpreted in a huge variety of ways, so asking for a particular audio example seems reasonable...? Some users have posted youtube vids of the sorts of sounds they'd like to hear Tremor do.

You've listened to all the audio demos in full, yes ? Many of them morph thru several kit flavours, and many have "classic" analogue drum sounds, though often layered with Tremor doing weird non-drum synthesis or bass lines.

Exotic analogue percussion - I'm stumped. The audio demos and presets show some pretty exotic non-drum-synth-like timbre wrangling and evolution (all the sounds in the audio demos are from Tremor, not just the drums). I'm sure it will get even more exotic as people explore the timbre-space in Tremor over the coming years.

icedsushi - heheh, I'd be inclined to say that the glitchier / driven & filtered end of the spectrum actually gives your hifi a more thorough workout. Driven doesn't have to been distorted / crunchy / clipping / lofi - it is harmonically richer, and thus will occupy a larger part of the spectrum. Right, "new skool analogue", we'll see what we can flush out of Tremor. Any artists you want to bandy in our direction as your faves?

* other people are asking for more analogue/ trans-mod abuse noise-scape presets, at the other end. Sigh!

[Phase47]

Phase 47, please don't take this the wrong way, but the thing has alot of flexibility with each drum having a pretty comprehensive drum synth under the hood. I think focusing to much on presets can often be a distraction in terms of trying out what an instrument is capable of. I think it was actually a pretty genius thing what U-he did in terms of not providing presets at first and letting people explore the instrument for what it was with Diva. It pushed people to explore the synth a bit more than they would normally.

Not at all, we all want the same thing around these parts, which is top-shelf musical instruments. With Urs and Diva, I think it's a bit different, because at the end of the day, Diva ships with what, something like 1200 presets or something like that? And they are pretty far ranging at that. All great stuff. How many does Tremor have? And are they wide ranging? They are about the same price, too. Just sayin'.

The thing with presets is many-fold. On the one hand, presets traditionally show you what the machine (or software) is capable of. On the other, it defines market and target audience. Like what Urs did with Diva to use your example. Nobody is criticizing Diva because you can't get a realistic violin sound or that it doesn't sound like a D-50. I agree, what he did, and does is very transparent and community oriented. Genius.

Presets can be useful - like you can actually use them right away, or they can be a source of inspiration, etc. Some people use presets as a jumping-off point to make their own thing. Some people might just stick with them and never explore. Others go right for the INIT button. It's all good.

I don't disagree that Tremor has the potential depth or the ability to do the equivalent with drums and percussion than what one could get with Diva wrt synth sounds, to continue with your example. But with Diva, it's there - the proof is in the pudding. My criticism with Tremor would be this, there are what, 32 kits? Maybe more. Maybe 48. I'm not at the comp right now, but 99% of that stuff was just overdriven and distorted. That's not a subjective observation. That's not a taste or preference call. That stuff is mostly distorted. Objectively. If you have ears, you hear this. I guess I just don't understand the market or strategy there because that's not useful to me, and I don't always have the time and luxury to roll my own. Sometimes, most times thes days, I need to turn on the machines and go.

But I'm not trying to sell a drum synth, I'm trying to buy one. Skot said they'd put up some new, less grungy presets and that's awesome. Let's hear 'em and hopefully they'll at least be able to double their offering as far as the factory presets go and show people, like Urs did with Diva, what Tremor is all about.

Edit: @Skot. Sorry I missed your reply. Ears are ears. If you guys think you've got it covered, it's all good. Maybe Tremor isn't right for me or vice versa. Maybe I'll take another look in a few months. . I do wish you guys lots of luck, we're all hoping for your continued success. If you guys or Urs or the Camels keep rolling, that's all that counts.

[SKoT_FX]

Qualification: My personal ears, not the corporate or sound design team's ears. And, as I've said previously, they've been trained on some harsh stuff, so my threshold for clean/rounded is different to others!

I think I can hear what people are after in some of the demos and presets, so I'll try to throw together some examples that lay it out more clearly, eg in some the cleaner drum sounds are contrasting with a driven bass synth...

[Amberience]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/630473/Kick_Drum_Designing.mp3

Little bit of kick drum desiging... you can hear how I affect several parameters to get a roundish kick drum, with some bite to it.

I don't know if this is more in line for what you guys are after. Let me know, and maybe I'll do a batch of 'em.

Drum preset here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/630473/Amberien ... tremordrum

Is this no good then folks? If not, I guess I'll bow out to your superior sound design knowledge... but to my ears, the final result has a nice analogyness to it, it sounds round, has some nice low-end, and has more of a "pitched" drum sound than a transient blow your head off kind of sound.

[musikmachine]

@whitecloud, i asked about saving on the forums. If we were able to save then early adopters could upload those presets when they buy it!

@Amberience, yeah that's a nice kick. Didn't think to use the gain instead of the drive or dynamics as the raw sounds do tend to be a bit quiet on their own. Disable it and it's almost gone! But this allows more dynamic, expressive control of the drums and shows another side to Tremor imo. Gives a little more soundshaping with the drive and filters too.

[Angus_FX]

Another thing to bear in mind with Tremor's design, when patching:-

Just because the drive stages are there, doesn't mean you should necessarily be using their full range all the time. One of the reasons they have the range they do is that you can give sounds a bit of extra drive *some* of the time, with TransMod.

One great trick is to get a good sounding kick or tom body (muffled osc tone or whatever), with the drive stages turned down to maybe 5-10%, then apply some Fast Env mod to the drive stage give the kick/tom a short, bright click on the attack. This will give you lots of extra brightness on the initial transient, without creating a huge volume spike that you then have to tame with compression.

[whitecloud]

Another thing to bear in mind with Tremor's design, when patching:-

Just because the drive stages are there, doesn't mean you should necessarily be using their full range all the time. One of the reasons they have the range they do is that you can give sounds a bit of extra drive *some* of the time, with TransMod.

One great trick is to get a good sounding kick or tom body (muffled osc tone or whatever), with the drive stages turned down to maybe 5-10%, then apply some Fast Env mod to the drive stage give the kick/tom a short, bright click on the attack. This will give you lots of extra brightness on the initial transient, without creating a huge volume spike that you then have to tame with compression.

You know it might be a good idea point to specific presets in the Demo where this technique is utilized. The name, what drum kit etc. Not only can one hear the example, but actually see it. My short experience with your company is very positive. Great customer service and response time. plus a willingness to listen to the consumer and try to see if there can be some added features or
quick bug fixes etc. If you can't re-do the demo that would include presets that are more to the liking of many here on this forum, Perhaps do a quick tutorial vid that illustrates how to achieve creating ones that some desire. I am trying to give Tremor more demo time, but I just received Geist And DCAM Synth squad
so two things are happening for me in recent days. 1. Compare Geist to Tremor(which I know are different animals) so I can conclude if I want another drum instrument right now. 2. See how hard my CPU is hit using not only Tremor
but also combined with Synth Squad or possible Geist as well
I must be one of the lucky ones as I have had Tremor, Strobe, Cypher and Fusor
all going at the same time and am at around 40% and no pops and crackles.
I am at either 4-8 oversampling BTW

[ariston]

After reading some of the responses, I just had to post again. First of all, to all you FXpansion dudes: Tremor is an amazing drum synth that really offers something the others don't. Great work, guys (and gals?). I worked with the demo for five minutes and had an awesome Autechre beat going in no time. I knew right away: I have to have this. And thanks for the fair "upgrade" price; I just know somebody like Izotope would charge 250$ for a plugin like Tremor. I love the vibrant, organic sound, the workflow, the ingenious little touches here and there. Thanks for not giving us another x0x clone.

That being said: I'm not a preset user - at least 99% of the time. I don't listen to audio demos. I can appreciate that not everyone is a tweaker and wants good sounds that will fit into a project right away. No matter what the preferences are: opinions will always differ, especially on (the quality of) presets. I sometimes get the impression (without having any data to back this up, naturally) that 90% of users are quite happy with the presets but quiet; while 10% are unhappy and very vocal about it - especially here at KanVeRemonstrate.

If this is even partly true, I find it particularly commendable that the developers are taking the time to look into it and discuss it here and elsewhere, even though they could (and probably do) have other priorities and things to do. And asking the critics to put their sound bites where their mouth is is only fair.

My 7 cents. Oh, and midi drag'n'drop would be nice, but not essential to me.

[Angus_FX]

Whitecloud - here you go, right click and Save As. I put this together from scratch in a little over 5 mins, it's 100% dry, will load fine in to the demo.

http://www.fxpansion.com/angus/minimalistic.tremor

(Edit:)
Just kick, snare and two toms. All use the same trick of drive via Fast Env to get a nice clicky spit at the start of the sound.

[Angus_FX]

And here's the same, with the addition of a woodblock, hats & a crashride.

http://www.fxpansion.com/angus/minimalistic2.tremor
right click, "save as".

The crashride illustrates an additional use of the drive stages - use the pre-filter drive to make a cymbal sound become more chaotic & noisy in its decay tail.