One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

As was brought up in this thread, there might still be some points that needs voting on.

Vote here

Votes must be in before 1st February KVR time

You can change your vote, but make sure it gets noticed by adding something next to your nick, for example: V'ger (revote)

And please mention if there are some other topics that ought to go in this rules vote, but do it fast..

i think that it should be stressed that only eq an compressor be available to use as host effects

i also think we should compile a list (with links) of good cross-platform stuff to show no one will lose out

[V'ger]

But why not the other effects like delays etc too?

A cross-platform list might be good to show the potential like you say, but maybe a bit late now the vote is underway, and if DAW effects win the vote it will anyway not be needed.

[JoeCat]

But why not the other effects like delays etc too?

A cross-platform list might be good to show the potential like you say, but maybe a bit late now the vote is underway, and if DAW effects win the vote it will anyway not be needed.

The cross-platform effects are pretty limited, but IMHO compression is the real issue - there's just not much available on the Mac side, and the ability to plop DAW eq and compression really does help focus on the synth, and adds less color to the sound than the free-ware versions (which tend toward the more colorful, although the Voxengo EQ is excellent).

Really, what it does is help put us few Mac guys on a level playing field when there's a cross-platform plug - I know I'm always fighting the compressor (and Rough Rider is great, but not for master buss lol )

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

But why not the other effects like delays etc too?

because i think there is too much variety in features and quality from each host

i always thought that OSC was about a level playing field...'level' to me is about eliminating as many variables as possible

the only reason i think that host eq and compressor are ok is because these are things that are pretty standard across the board

host eq and compressor

tal dub III
tal-reverb
ambience
sonEq
roughrider
molot compresor
yong w1 limiter

that's it

[Aiynzahev]

I forgot exactly how I voted but IMO I think using host Compression, EQ, delay and reverb would be acceptable. The reasoning is that most hosts effects are pretty much on par with each other and if they are not then you can use a freeware plugin which is probably as good if not better than most hosts effects.

This would help us focus more on making the track because I spent a lot of time messing around with new plugs I was unfamiliar with when so I could comply with the rules.

[JoeCat]

tal dub III
tal-reverb
ambience
sonEq
roughrider
molot compresor
yong w1 limiter[/color]

that's it

That's just about my setup!

That would, however, severely limit the Windows/PC guys; the playing field is inherently somewhat unfair if you are working on a Mac. But IMHO host compressions is the biggest factory - you can do almost anything you need with those verbs, delay, and limiter, but even the molot compressor I find a little unwieldy and colorful compared to the host compressors.

So as a Mac guy I would be more than thrilled to be able to use host EQ and compression.

[pocvecem]

Erm, if i'm allowed to add my 2 cents...

I always thought that the OSC rules are fine like they are. You can use whatever free fx you like, but no distortions and no modulation fx.
In my opinion the "no host eq" rule is a bit needless. For the Diva OSC i was in search of a free eq. Well, typed in the KVR plug in base someting like eq - free - 64bit -> result: BlueCat Triple Eq. A fine neutral eq available for Win and Mac, 32 and 64 bit. That eq doesn't do much more than e.g. the Cubase or Ableton channel eq. If you need more than that eq on a single sound then there's something wrong with the sound itself. Ok, than i choose another preset or make a new one from scratch that fits better. So i can live with the "no host eq" rule very fine.
No eq or other fx (free or 500$) can correct a wrong chosen sound.

But i don't want to hear the complaints from Mac users anymore that they haven't got the same variety of plug ins as Win users have.
We are all humans, and so we have a free choice. If you choose a Mac OS you must be aware that your options are limited. Complete. Word. End. Basta!

What i want to say is: It's not what you use but how you make use of it!

I really like to talk (for hours) about technical things. But never let the technical side take over the creative side.

Let's focus on the essential thing of the OSC: Let's make music!
Let's try to evoke images, feelings, certain moods... with our music.
Let's do this all with simple (and free!) ingredients.
Let's do it with sincerity.

Sure, there must be some rules and restrictions in a contest like OSC. But those restrictions only should boost our efforts.
But, please not: you can only use compressor x, reverb y, delay z,...

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations! (Yep, i'm a Trekkie!)

This is my appeal to let the OSC rules as simple as they are.
This is my opinion.
This is my manifesto.

Hope i don't sound like an old geezer
And all who really know me, know that i don't want to offend someone!


Let's make more music,
Gerald

[JJBiener]

Gerald, your points are well taken. I can't really disagree with anything you posted. And FWIW, you don't sound like any more of an old geezer than I do. Either that or we are both old geezers.

[pocvecem]

Yippie! Two old geezers!

[V'ger]

most hosts effects are pretty much on par with each other and if they are not then you can use a freeware plugin which is probably as good if not better than most hosts effects.

This would help us focus more on making the track because I spent a lot of time messing around with new plugs I was unfamiliar with when so I could comply with the rules.

Good points, but I think the free effects rule was originally set thinking some DAWs had superior ones, especially Pro Tools maybe. I really don't know if this is true anymore, but it probably is.

But as far as I know we haven't had a single PT user submit here so maybe the point is moot. Maybe the Cubase reverb is better than most, but probably not. From my Cubase days I remember the step filter in high pass mode was awesome and hard to beat, and there might be other DAWs with slightly better stuff too, I don't know.

But a lot of freeware stuff is praised to match a lot of commercial ones, so I don't know how big an issue this really is anymore.

Bottom line is that I want to see the best tracks possible from as many people as possible and free + DAW effects will surely help here.

As for compressors for Mac, there's the Melda one, Blockfish and imo the highly underrated MjCompressor (VST), but PocVecem makes a good point about the difference between Mac/PC shouldn't really be an issue as no one is really forced to have settled on Mac. Likely the more telling difference is between the haves and have nots among us regardless of platform. On one side people who can afford top computers and write without crackling in real time, keeping the inspiration level high, mix with reference monitors/headphones and on the other side people using twice the time to write with endless bouncing on an aging laptop and cheap earbuds etc and there was never a topic to make it fair in this regard as it was between the platform users and DAW vs free effects so..

Still don't know how to vote though..

[JoeCat]

But i don't want to hear the complaints from Mac users anymore that they haven't got the same variety of plug ins as Win users have.
We are all humans, and so we have a free choice. If you choose a Mac OS you must be aware that your options are limited. Complete. Word. End. Basta!

Not complaining. The availability of free plugs was certainly not a factor in my decision to buy a Mac! Only suggesting that if part of spirit of the OSC rules is to keep as level a playing field as possible, allowing host tools for EQ, compression, and possibly limiting does not detract from that spirit any more than the fact that we use different DAWS, computers, etc. They are ubiquitous tools in all DAWS, do not differ significantly in their sound-alteration, and differ more in terms of workflow. They do not provide an undo advantage any more than a DAWs other features. Using what we are comfortable with allows us to focus more on the music.

Compression is probably the biggest problem. Cross-platform, to my knowledge only Rough Rider and Molot are available, and neither are particularly colorless or appropriate for the master channel. I do find that a problem when producing. (Again - that's not a complaint about the Mac, just an observations that cross-platform tools are severely limited - even the Blue Cat EQ is only three bands).

My vote would be to allow host EQ (which was previously allowed), compression and limiting.
Reverb and Delay allowed, must be a free plug non-DAW plug (these do differ greatly in sound and features - Logic for example has Space Designer!).
No other sound-shaping tools allowed.

(At any rate, I'll run bootcamp/windows for the windows OSCs, if I can get these ASIO drivers working)


Geezer - HA! I'm 49

[pocvecem]

Well, i'm only speaking for myself now, but i really can't afford a top i7 computer. Just bought a new computer in 03-2011 and i will use it the next four years as it is , because on the one hand i don't want to install all the time and on the other hand my AMD has enough power to handle a lot of things in the future. And i could't afford it at once, it will be fully payed in march, after one year paying by installments.
When i bought my last computer five years ago it was a AMD dual core and it was a top notch system at that time. In two years my six core will likely be an outdated system and others may have a much better computer than me. Then i must bounce all the time!

And better monitoring can't compensate my hearing loss. There's not much above 10khz on my left ear. And that constant ringing in my ears will drive me mad some day.
But that's my own fault: many years of playing in rock bands and neglecting ear protection in industrial production won't lie. I'd rather loose an eye than an ear!

To all: Please take care of your ears! These damages can't be repaired!

But back to topic:
I think if we started another Synth1 OSC it will show that there will be complete different sound as it had with the last two ones because there are completetly new people here. This is just meant as an example.
Synth1 can be used on all plattforms now and it really takes no cpu on any system today.

[JoeCat]

And better monitoring can't compensate my hearing loss. There's not much above 10khz on my left ear. And that constant ringing in my ears will drive me mad some day.
But that's my own fault: many years of playing in rock bands and neglecting ear protection in industrial production won't lie. I'd rather loose an eye than an ear!

To all: Please take care of your ears! These damages can't be repaired!

Really sorry to hear that I play in a band with guys a few years younger than me, and all but one refuses to plug-up. I lecture them every single damned time!

Well, i'm only speaking for myself now, but i really can't afford a top i7 computer.

We're actually on the same page - that being my point. There are plenty of differences between our computers, monitors, controllers. Allowing host eq and compression removes one more barrier.

As for compressors for Mac, there's the Melda one, Blockfish...

Saddly, Blockfish is not compatible with Intel Macs. But Urs ported that code - maybe we can nudge him to do an update?

[V'ger]

Well I can say that from the votes in so far both topics seem to divide OSCers down the middle, quite interesting that.

[IrionDaRonin]

Still don't know how to vote though..

Same here, i don't know what to vote yet.
But still i want to see an utopic world with all people happy dancing around OSC campfire, lol.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Here would have been a huge wall of text, but i noticed that it didn't make any sense after all so i delete it, lol.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway i have a couple of questions, some answers would be nice to me to choose my votes easier.

If the rule of DAW effects changes into "Yes, now you can use them". Could i use DAW Compressor and DAW EQ too then?
Also, if this rules gets approved, what about using a convolution reverb? Yes, it uses external waves, and that's why i'm asking, actually i think FL Studio has a couple of bad/cheap reverbs in my opinion, but this convolution one sounds clean.
I think Reverberate LE it was allowed, right?

Other than that, sorry for the ears problem, Pocvecem.
I know what is that, i suffer of it since i was a child too.
I recreated with synth more or less what i'm listening 24/7 in loop mode, lol.

Enjoy Tinnitus in G#
Isn't it marvellous? Haha.

Thanks i'm accustomed to it or i would get mad too.
Don't think on it, do your life, and go ahead.

Have a good day