Best guitar midi controller for VSTi and note input

[Uncle E]

Well the Fishman is going to eat their lunch if they don't. I can't imagine someone wanting to spend $150 on something they can't even do chords on, when you can get the Fishman for $150 more. Yes, double the price, but far more functionality.

What's this Fishman you speak of?

[Dean Aka Nekro]

Only one i have tried out properly apart from roland bits was a Ghost or whatever it is called by Graph Tech. It was like the roland things. I do not think apart from drum programming myself and MIDI are ever going to get it together. Weak complaint on my part - I am a south paw/cack handed (and footed for that matter) and i play every instrument normally as in right handed but for drums and piano/keys i just can not do it, So basically it want to cross my arms over whilst attempting to play a piano/keyboard so my right hand is doing the bass notes and my left (fretting hand) is doing the lead lines...It kills me to the point that i gave up. One of those things that Eric mentioned sounds like my best ever bet, Going to try one of them out. Could be my final stand with attempting to control something via MIDI as i am certain i am missing out on lots of fun...Hence the reason i always say that i don't synth as mouse input is not much fun and my humble K49 Korg controller frustrates more than inspires

Oh and if a drumkit is setup for a lefty i can hold a basic beat and hit single kit pieces/cymbals at varying velocities but that is it anyways with respect to that

f**king skate goofy also...f**k some pedals even annoy me as i have to think about the layout of my pedal board as they are say with my CFH wah setup for the boost to be kicked in for all you righties. Arrrggghhh, Worse are mulit-fx units with the Treadle pedals yep FAR RIGHT...Just where i don't wants it

For the f**king sake of f**k its a curse. Lefty rant over and thankfully it came regular to me to pickup the guitar the proper way or i would be even more LEFT out

Dean

Could never use a fountain pen/ink pen at school as it smudged so bad and when the scissors came out yeah i got the 'special' ones when everyone else got to use red ones Bane of my school days

[tapper mike]

Dean you can flip gk's and slide them under, You can also play neat tricks with the sheathing the send along. I'm still not a big fan of audio to mid conversion regardless of what hype someone is spreading.

I will say this. Harvey Starr is a lefty and every model he sells opting for left handed is no extra charge.

On the point of dexterity I'm barely a righty have to practice more then I'm free to admit just working up a rhythm. As a recent advent I'm trying to develop more left hand rhythmic strength. It's tough trying to develop even simple triplets with the under hand only and no support from the overhand.
But I'm trying.

[Dean Aka Nekro]

Dean you can flip gk's and slide them under, You can also play neat tricks with the sheathing the send along. I'm still not a big fan of audio to mid conversion regardless of what hype someone is spreading.

I will say this. Harvey Starr is a lefty and every model he sells opting for left handed is no extra charge.

On the point of dexterity I'm barely a righty have to practice more then I'm free to admit just working up a rhythm. As a recent advent I'm trying to develop more left hand rhythmic strength. It's tough trying to develop even simple triplets with the under hand only and no support from the overhand.
But I'm trying.

Hey Mike, Hope that you are well mate? After that leg injury dude.
I am not sure that i am following you here/understand what you mean to be honest. Does Harvey Starr sell a MIDI controller keyboard that is for lefties? I am not sure who he is and have not heard of him before, I will definately have a look though if so as that would be great (Mod/Pitch wheel on the right hand side of the board, Mapped to by default send out High to Low from the left as i am facing it/playing it?) i would certainly be worth looking further into one and paying some extra for if that is so

With regards to dexterity i do not have much problems playing guitar or bass as i do as mentioned being born a left-handed person but by nature it felt right to play and always has done as if i were right-handed (I am 29 now and been playing since i was about 12 or 13 if that helps). But only with respect to guitar and bass (plus any other stringed instruments i have picked up like mandolins, banjos...etc. even a double bass on a few occasions and once a cello although it was simply for the sake of having a quick try as using a bow makes it a much different beast ). So its either fingers, plectrum or a combination of both where i am totally comfortable.

If it would help and if you do not mind i can easily post links to a few of my tracks or send you a private message with links in so you can hear how i play and any possible areas i should work on regarding technique

Thank you and sorry that i do not follow what you are saying Mike
All the best as always

Dean

[polaris20]

Well the Fishman is going to eat their lunch if they don't. I can't imagine someone wanting to spend $150 on something they can't even do chords on, when you can get the Fishman for $150 more. Yes, double the price, but far more functionality.

What's this Fishman you speak of?

http://bestofnamm.com/products/view/tripleplay

From the Axon creator, for $300.

[polaris20]

Dean you can flip gk's and slide them under, You can also play neat tricks with the sheathing the send along. I'm still not a big fan of audio to mid conversion regardless of what hype someone is spreading.

I will say this. Harvey Starr is a lefty and every model he sells opting for left handed is no extra charge.

On the point of dexterity I'm barely a righty have to practice more then I'm free to admit just working up a rhythm. As a recent advent I'm trying to develop more left hand rhythmic strength. It's tough trying to develop even simple triplets with the under hand only and no support from the overhand.
But I'm trying.

Hype? What hype? Is pitch to MIDI as good as a ZTar? Nope. Definitely not. Is a Roland setup and definitely the Fishman a helluva lot cheaper, while also still feeling like a guitar? You bet.

I love the Ztars. I had a few opportunities to play a friend's Z7. It's awesome. It's also over $2000 (even the Z5 is now). That puts it out of reach for a lot of people.

So forgive the "hype" of a good MIDI guitar solution that's not a toy game controller, like the YRG or Mustang or whatever other garbage the other companies are putting out.

[forbiddensilence]

Well the Fishman is going to eat their lunch if they don't. I can't imagine someone wanting to spend $150 on something they can't even do chords on, when you can get the Fishman for $150 more. Yes, double the price, but far more functionality.

What's this Fishman you speak of?

http://bestofnamm.com/products/view/tripleplay

From the Axon creator, for $300.

So is this the product i've been waiting for, it is Axon afterall? or will everyone hate this too?
I find it unbelievable that i have not had a solid recommendation that can do a modest job...about 65% worth will suffice...and wont cost 1500 pounds.

I see this midi thing is a bit hit n miss. Or sometimes i wonder if people's set ups/tweaks or guitar techniques are at fault here? But hey, lets just assume everyone is an expert on the discussion.
feels like i'm losing out on a lot of fun pondering about it..whilst a cheap alternative could suffice.
Afterall i can't compare anything i buy to anything else cos i;ve never owned a midi guitar/synth...so i suppose i will just have to try something just to get a feel of what everyone is moaning about.
But lets keep this thread alive...midi guitar...such a elusive black art!

[polaris20]

Well the Fishman is going to eat their lunch if they don't. I can't imagine someone wanting to spend $150 on something they can't even do chords on, when you can get the Fishman for $150 more. Yes, double the price, but far more functionality.

What's this Fishman you speak of?

http://bestofnamm.com/products/view/tripleplay

From the Axon creator, for $300.

So is this the product i've been waiting for, it is Axon afterall? or will everyone hate this too?
I find it unbelievable that i have not had a solid recommendation that can do a modest job...about 65% worth will suffice...and wont cost 1500 pounds.

I see this midi thing is a bit hit n miss. Or sometimes i wonder if people's set ups/tweaks or guitar techniques are at fault here? But hey, lets just assume everyone is an expert on the discussion.
feels like i'm losing out on a lot of fun pondering about it..whilst a cheap alternative could suffice.
Afterall i can't compare anything i buy to anything else cos i;ve never owned a midi guitar/synth...so i suppose i will just have to try something just to get a feel of what everyone is moaning about.
But lets keep this thread alive...midi guitar...such a elusive black art!

My setup of a GK3 and a GI-20 works very well. The Fishman Triple Play will likely work even better, and it'll be cheaper. It'll work better because Axon was/is faster and more accurate than any Roland system, even the current GR-55, and this new Fishman system was designed by the designer of the Axon. While it's an unproven product, it's designer has a long reputation for this type of thing.

[forbiddensilence]

can i buy it now? or i do i still have to wait another flipping 12months?

[tapper mike]

Hey Dean
Thanks, It was hell for a while but honestly I made a complete recovery.

Haven't we all gone down that path one to many times in this forum.

Yup ztars are expensive I know I own two one purchased used.

And Yes Harvey Starr is a lefty he makes left hand models.
Although flipping a standard z5, z6 or z7 is possible. The neck and strings are equally parallel.


skip to the 5:00 mark I tried to link directly to that segment but it starts at the beginning for me.

If you think about buying used but can only find right a right handed model
Notice Harvey playing a standard righty flipped over



Also you'll notice here harvey is playing a lefty mini

[tapper mike]

As far as musical development. For a long time I tried to do everything I could to expand my "ztar conciousness" and extend knowledge of the instrument and approaches.

I've heard your stuff there is no shame in your game.

The problem with spreading wide for me is that I was spreading myself too thin. Metal, rock, fusion, blues, trad, bebop, fusion, techno and completely in vain neo classical. Not only in styles but in approaches. I tried perfect fourths tunings, standard tuning, Dropped tuning 5ths tunings and even octaves tuning ala TK


It all got to be a bit too much.
I started to document many of my experiments
http://tappermike.com

But I wasn't getting much response from the ztar community. I also found that I wasn't enjoying playing songs as much because I'd be focusing all my energies on developing techniques. Everything on my site and the stuff I've posted on youtube only represents less then a fifth of the concepts I've actually explored.

So I've streamlined what I'm actually playing/experimenting with. While I can "fingerpick" on keytriggers and get a sense of joy in accomplishment I could never have done using conventional fingerpicking I've left that behind.
While I've developed a lot of great ideas for left/right interdependent tapping I've also left that behind.


I've left many concepts behind and yet my plate is still filled with just working out ideas. That's the thing about the ztar. It can't/wont replace a guitar. It can't/wont replace a keyboard. However it can do many things that a keyboard can do that a guitar will never do and it can do many things that a guitar can do that a keyboard can't and it can do many things that neither can.

Right now I'm focusing on hand independence. My over hand can play any solo that my under hand can and even better. My over hand can play chords though not with all the extended voicings that my under hand can. My Left hand can do most of the stuff it used to do on a regulat guitar but it's hard to develop tremelo tapping using the under hand only with no support from the right. Yes I could just use a "retrigger" function on the key triggers or string triggers and pick in a conventional sense but that would mean I'd have to sacrafice anything that the overhand was doing.

Everything I'm doing is two part with the excepton of an idea I have for three part. So that means. Left hand chords with right melody or right hand chords with left melody (yes very possible on a zta) or left hand walking bass with right chords, Left walking bass with right melody. Right hand chords with bass left. Left chords with right bass. I've even got an experiment where I'm assigning bass to the low two strings running chords under it for an alternating pattern and then a melody on top.

It's challenging and I'm getting better bit by bit at having each part stand out so it sounds like two people are playing at once. The hardest part is not to practice the parts separately. Once you go down that route all concentration is fixated on one instrument / sound and not the other. The only way to do it is to transcribe into something usuable where one works a quarter note at a time to get all the notes working when they need to. The transcription is the hardest part. Even a two staff tab display isn't sufficent due to "ztar poly chords" I use and I hate reading let alone writing in standard notation.

[Uncle E]

My setup of a GK3 and a GI-20 works very well. The Fishman Triple Play will likely work even better, and it'll be cheaper. It'll work better because Axon was/is faster and more accurate than any Roland system, even the current GR-55, and this new Fishman system was designed by the designer of the Axon. While it's an unproven product, it's designer has a long reputation for this type of thing.

Thank you very, very much for bringing the Triple Play to my attention. Fishman sent me the full cut sheet on it and I'll share with you what I'm seeing in it now:

1. It looks easy! No screwing anything in, no damaging your guitar, and no clumsy wires hanging off. The GK-3 that was suction-cupped to my guitar before was always getting pulled off by the 13-pin cable. This one just looks all around less cumbersome.

2. iOS compatible!

3. Sends audio in addition to midi!

4. Nothing leads me to believe it will be faster than other systems.

[Uncle E]

can i buy it now? or i do i still have to wait another flipping 12months?

They told me Q3, meaning sometime in July, August, or September.

[Uncle E]

Or sometimes i wonder if people's set ups/tweaks or guitar techniques are at fault here?

When Roland sent me a demo unit GR55 together with a fully setup ESP guitar, I found the tracking performance to be similar to all my other midi guitar setups.

[robogone]

I am a south paw/cack handed (and footed for that matter) and i play every instrument normally as in right handed but for drums and piano/keys i just can not do it, So basically it want to cross my arms over whilst attempting to play a piano/keyboard so my right hand is doing the bass notes and my left (fretting hand) is doing the lead lines...It kills me to the point that i gave up.

You should just force yourself to do it, if you can do it with guitar then you can do it with piano. I'm not sure whether I'm naturally left or right handed as I struggle to do some things right handed and struggle to do some things left handed. I write with my right hand but I can write pretty well with my left hand too, but as I got older I realized that it only takes effort to change the handedness of one of those things.

Piano is all about putting the work into it, so you should probably persevere. Remember when you thought you'd never be able to fret an A major without dampening other strings, or that you'd never remember where all the notes in the blues scale were on a fretboard? Same with piano - once you've done it for a while it gets easier and you laugh at how hard it once was.