saturation plug in on the master bus?

[SWAN808]

that's probably why i mentioned reviver, it is "bad proof". it never gets nasty.


to kvacs maybe it's a simply process, i don't know, but it works for me..

can you give me a product that you think does basically the same thing as reviver?

i would love to check it out, especially if cheaper, as that is the sound i want.

cheers.

Reviver is a very nice plugin. Only wish they would reduce the price. The 3rd harmonics are great to add punch to drums. Sadly nothing else like it cheaper or for PC. But its as good as digital saturation I have found.

[Barendse]

Well there's a lot to say about Nebula but to my ears it's the only plugin which doesn't sound like a plugin.

Another great Nebula option for dirty up your mix buss are the NAG Tape programs by STN.

Both programs sound great but different. The 15ips program sounds dark and a little muddy, the 30ips has a subtle smile curve.

http://rhythminmind.net/STN/?p=3002

[kvaca]

Well there's a lot to say about Nebula but to my ears it's the only plugin which doesn't sound like a plugin.

agree...Nebula sounds and behave like a Nebula and NOTHING else can come even close to it

p.s.-I have very similar statement: convolution reverb is the only reverb which dont sound like a plugin...

[kvaca]

Reviver is a very nice plugin. Only wish they would reduce the price. The 3rd harmonics are great to add punch to drums. Sadly nothing else like it cheaper or for PC..

can you tell me the diffrenece between it and free MLimiter?

[SWAN808]

Reviver is a very nice plugin. Only wish they would reduce the price. The 3rd harmonics are great to add punch to drums. Sadly nothing else like it cheaper or for PC..

can you tell me the diffrenece between it and free MLimiter?

Good question! I have only played for a few moments with MLimiter and got results I didnt like when I pushed the harmonics into positive values...but I didnt spend much time or understand it at the time...needed to put the harmonics in negative values to get similar results (?).

I just did a test on a drum loop. Bearing in mind reviver is alias free - and Im not sure about MLimiter without Oversampling on...

However overall I'd say Reviver it truer to the signal in that it adds harmonics in a precise way that I would not be worried about on the masterbus and it seems to act very sympathetically over the whole signal in a way that does not seem degrade it but simply add. It appears to add to the low end better - whereas MLimiter seems not to punch the low end so much with the third harmonics and slightly looses the highs. However - I was able to get very similar results using a bit of the MLimiter soft sat and limiter sections.

Here is a loop file. 4 bars of each. Original, then X then Y then original then Y then X.

See if you can guess which is which based on my description...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7995417/Sat%20test.wav

MLimiter is powerful in that you have to be careful how much you use it and change/distort the signal. Again - Im not sure I would use it on the master. Reviver is more refined - you can add in a lot of 3rd harmonics and it will not distort or alter the main signal much. I like Reviver a lot - however if I move to PC - I dont think I will be crying now there is MLimiter

[Tp3]

However there is a point when even i must say, when is enough enough?

Don't tell us you're getting put off by a few plugs ...

Ah mean, how much easier can it get to sit down and effortlessly choose between the following (all from
this topic) :

Melda MLimiter/MMultiBandSaturator
or
PSP Vintage Warmer
or
FerricTDS
or
Waves mpx
or
Mellowmuse SATV
or
UAD Ampex 102
or
Magnetic II
or
PS mix saturator
or
Slate VCC
or
Kush UBK-1
or
CDSoundmasters VTMM2
or
BootEQI mklI+FerricTDS [the combination]
or
BootEQI mklI (The tube stage)
or
SKNote's Roundtone
or
TesslaPRO
or
Terry West's SATURN
or
REDLINE PREAMP
or
SoundToys Decapitator
or
MellowMuse SATV
or
URS Saturator
or
McDSP Analog Channel
or
Solid State Logic Duende Native
or
ToneBooster FEROX
or
TAL's DubDelay II
or
PSP MixSaturator2 (in Shape mode: 'Tape-1')
or
MAGNETO
or
TSclip
or
Voxengo Tube Amp
or
Antress ModernAnaloguer
or
CamelPhat
or
VCC into VTM-M2
or
TesslaSE
or
Nebula (with proper presets)

Oh, no... did you just say Nebula ??

On the other hand... yes... YES to Nebula (with STN or AlexB or CDS)

SO....

Nebula + AlexB MLC it is !

OTH, Nebula MTC into CDS R2R into STN Powered bus might be a better choice
or
Nebula with AlexB's MLC into CDSoundmaster R2R into STN VM

To sum it up :

As you see, IT CANT BE ANY EASIER TO CHOOSE AMONG A FEW CHOICES, EH ?...

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[SWAN808]

great post.

i still stand by reviver.

How much of the 2nd and 3rd do you put in? Thing about Reviver is it does not imprint much character - just pure saturation...so you could use it with another tape sat if you wanted...

What Presets of R2R do people go for on the master? There are so many...1 or 2 db of Tapebooster.

I think for me the UBK1 is too coloured for the master. I would go for a few sources and drum bus with that one.

I like Cuttertone with a little acceleration limiter to soften the highs...

[Tapehead]

Mercado_Negro wrote

I have mine set to -18dBFS but there are different standards so you'd have to check your gear, console, etc., and check their calibrations.

Well, I mix 100% ITB. I record with some ribbon mics, super clean preamps (The Forssell Technologies SMP-2), into Purple MC 77 and then HEDD with very light tape and tube saturation. I'm yet to find any Nebula library or any saturator that adds anything to my chain. I bought many libraries and tried them extensively but so far without any pleasant magic. I can see the potential and how some styles of music can instantly get that extra lift (rock and all things electronic) but for my (acoustic) music it usually has a more negative impact. Though, I'm still searching for those illusive sonic shadows....

I do like VCC tube but the gain staging is way to finicky; I just can't find that sweet spot between too much and not enough...hence my questions about your gain staging.

[kvaca]

Good question! I have only played for a few moments with MLimiter and got results I didnt like when I pushed the harmonics into positive values...but I didnt spend much time or understand it at the time...needed to put the harmonics in negative values to get similar results (?)

yes,negative values are usually better...

I just did a test on a drum loop. Bearing in mind reviver is alias free - and Im not sure about MLimiter without Oversampling on...

with 8x or better oversampling is totally zeroaliasing,but for drums there is no need to use it at all...

However overall I'd say Reviver it truer to the signal in that it adds harmonics in a precise way that I would not be worried about on the masterbus and it seems to act very sympathetically over the whole signal in a way that does not seem degrade it but simply add....

on master bus I mostly use default setting of 1 band MMSaturator=translated to Mlimiter it is treshold fully left=silence,mode soft 1,even h. 50%,additional harmonics off...and I NEVER got problems with distortion or buzz...but be careful that input NEVER goes above zero,otherwise you get hard limiting,too...which CAN be buzzy...

It appears to add to the low end better - whereas MLimiter seems not to punch the low end so much with the third harmonics and slightly looses the highs. However - I was able to get very similar results using a bit of the MLimiter soft sat and limiter sections.....

I cannot compare these 2 directly becouse Reviver is AFAIK Mac only but it seems that Melda is definitely more tweakable so its up to you what sound you can have and if you switch off the limiter=saturator section and use only harmonics section below then you should easily dial 2nd and 3rd harmonics same as with Reviver...but off course Im not perfectly sure if reviver dont have other hidden functions inside which are not clear from description and GUI...

Here is a loop file. 4 bars of each. Original, then X then Y then original then Y then X.

well,electronic music is not my cup of coffe as I prefer more acoustic music,so its harder for me to guess-but I have tryed to overcome this...so here are my observations:
-listened to average internet headphones I heard almost no difference-everything same...so I took this wav to my music PC-and here it is different story...
-original loop sound well balanced and quieter than XY which is not necessarily bad but sounds slightly worse directly compared to X loop
-X loop sounds simply best,not overcompressed,not distorted and well balanced similarly to original loop,perfect work I think
-Y souds -as it is- simply bad,phasey,even more compressed,bass heavy and dull-but I have to accept that there can be a situation in electronic music where it will be desirable for mix...who knows
Resultat-as I use MMSaturator/which is advanced version of MLimiter/ more than 3 years I think that X=MLimiter
Finally-to be sure-,I took original file and have used MMSaturators default setting /as described above/,without oversampling and as a resuls I immediately got file almost identical with X /only a bit louder/...so to be even more sure-I have tryed to get with Melda results similar as Y...and after hour of tweking everything I finally got something like it,but not very close-but I even had to use low quality oversampling,which I have never used so far,and especially for drums!..,so I simply cannot believe you did it this way...

[kvaca]

Mercado_Negro wrote

I have mine set to -18dBFS but there are different standards so you'd have to check your gear, console, etc., and check their calibrations.

Well, I mix 100% ITB. I record with some ribbon mics, super clean preamps (The Forssell Technologies SMP-2), into Purple MC 77 and then HEDD with very light tape and tube saturation. I'm yet to find any Nebula library or any saturator that adds anything to my chain. I bought many libraries and tried them extensively but so far without any pleasant magic. I can see the potential and how some styles of music can instantly get that extra lift (rock and all things electronic) but for my (acoustic) music it usually has a more negative impact. Though, I'm still searching for those illusive sonic shadows....

I do like VCC tube but the gain staging is way to finicky; I just can't find that sweet spot between too much and not enough...hence my questions about your gain staging.

agree with you most of the time ,but I think Nebula is principially way too smooth for classic rock,maybe more suitable for soft rock...who knows ideally,my prefence will be something like this:
-classilal = use only best digital plugins
-jazz = use tube based hardware or digital plugins
-classic rock = use only dedicated hardware
-electronica = use analogue hardware or Nebula

[Tp3]

great post.

i still stand by reviver.

Well, good for you !

Eventually, they all sound - more or less - the same...

[Giusmex]

well i have other two questions:

1)when you talk about Nebula, what kind of version of nebula and what specific plug in you are referring to?


2) I am attracted by the PSP Vintage Warmer just for the name !! what are the characteristics of Vintage Warmer with respect to other "saturation" and colouring" plug ins? And what are its drawbacks?


thanx

[eytanmich123]

well i have other two questions:

1)when you talk about Nebula, what kind of version of nebula and what specific plug in you are referring to?

1.3.5xx

2) I am attracted by the PSP Vintage Warmer just for the name !! what are the characteristics of Vintage Warmer with respect to other "saturation" and colouring" plug ins? And what are its drawbacks?

It is vintage
It is warm

[bezusheist]

that's one of the many great things about Voxengo...usually the name of the plug-in is a pretty good description of what you can expect from it...
i would also like to add that the only drawback to the vintage warmer is it will not make things sound contemporary cold.