KVR Audio

JimmiG · Post by **JimmiG** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:16 pm

tehlord wrote:
aquar wrote:
A total newbie probably could sit down and produce a fairly decent dance track with the Virus assuming they have a few good ideas and listen to current trends.
So yeah in the right hands the Virus really is a hit machine because it was built for the kill.
The effects are already designed for a club type of sound and that helps a lot.
The same cant be said of a lot of softsynths that come drenched with in your face presets that sound like shit in a club.

This is complete and utter nonsense.

The virus is just another VA plugin with a large dongle. It sounds great, but it's really no different than using any other plugin except that it's not as flexible.

I would argue that it is true, mostly because the presets are so good. I would say the same is true for Nexus and perhaps also Sylenth1 and a few other plugins. You can just grab 10 presets and compose the parts, then mix them together and provided you get the levels and pans about right, it will sound decent.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:23 pm

JimmiG wrote:
mkdr wrote:
SLiC wrote:I have the Powercore Virus, best of both worlds IMHO, power of a Virus (or Z3ta) without the CPU hit.

So, it is a Virus, in software only....

Z3ta 2 = £69
Virus Ti over £1500....

The Virus Ti hardware would have to be A LOT better for the average home studio (assuming you already have a PC, control surface/keyboard, soundcard...) but if you gig, I would go with the hardware....
Been looking forward to acquiring a Poco Virus too. Already got a few cards to run it on(dirt cheap stuff!). But what i do have now is a Virus B and it's miles ahead of Z3ta's sound.. It's not so much the "quality" or ease of use of it, but the character of the sound. Attitude. But Z3ta can make nice sounds too, no doubt, and i use it all the time. There's just no sense in comparing these, even though they have a very similar sound structure.

Btw.
2x poco cards = 100-150e
poco virus plugin = ~350e
equals
32 multi parts, 128 voices of Virus B sounds with 128 samples latency. All ITB.

Compare that to TI's 3 stereo outputs, over usb(facepalm)... for over 3x the price..
No sense at all in getting a TI
The advantage of the hardware Virus with its analog outs is that 15 years from now, when people view PCI-Express the way we think of the ISA slot today (you remember ISA, don't you?), it will still work just fine as a standalone synthesizer. Those Powercore cards will be completely useless with no slot to plug them into, and the software plugin itself will be incompatible with your DAW, your audio card and the operating system.

My 26-year old JX-8P is still working fine today.. can't say that about the music software I had for my Commodore 64 that came on some kind of proprietary cartridge...

I have to disagree, if you keep a PC with a PCI slot working it can last as long as any hardware synth? I can use spare (old) PC's intigrated in to my studio via vienna studio etc.

PCI-Express external mounts also exist (so you can use it on your laptop

)
http://www.virtuavia.eu/shop/1-x-netsto ... n-box.html
and obviusly there are firewire versions of powercore.Powerrcores are utter bargins right now. They should make them open sourse than we can have Diva Powercore

tehlord · Post by **tehlord** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:30 pm

JimmiG wrote:
I would argue that it is true, mostly because the presets are so good. I would say the same is true for Nexus and perhaps also Sylenth1 and a few other plugins. You can just grab 10 presets and compose the parts, then mix them together and provided you get the levels and pans about right, it will sound decent.

The point is that a total newbie probably won't mix and pan them right. A virus doesn't offer a magic mixing solution just because some of the presets sound nice.

xamido · Post by **xamido** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:30 pm

I don't know about you guys, but everytime i use my virus i don't need to apply many external effect to make it sound decent. I think those built-in effect makes virus what it is, the sound is usable in your song immediately.

PAK · Post by **PAK** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:43 pm

JimmiG wrote:The advantage of the hardware Virus with its analog outs is that 15 years from now, when people view PCI-Express the way we think of the ISA slot today (you remember ISA, don't you?), it will still work just fine as a standalone synthesizer. Those Powercore cards will be completely useless with no slot to plug them into, and the software plugin itself will be incompatible with your DAW, your audio card and the operating system.

What happened to the computer it's plugged into now? How did it just magic itself away? Why won't it be working in 15 years too? Also, why do you assume there will be no way to hook it up to a more modern machine? You've heard of things like a Magma chassis, right?

Another difference is, if something goes wrong in those 15 years, guess which one has the most parts which are easiest to repair? The one with custom surface mount components, where only a few thousand were made, or an appliance with mass manufactured drop in replacement parts readily available for dirt cheap via Ebay? Modern computers are built like Lego too, meaning most people can replace a component themselves without paying (pretty expensive) techs to do it for them.

My 26-year old JX-8P is still working fine today.. can't say that about the music software I had for my Commodore 64 that came on some kind of proprietary cartridge...

A giant quantity of Commodore 64 software is readily available on the internet and is ran more easily now than it was back then. As for the JX8P - If the aftertouch is still working after 26 years then that's quite an achievement given how prone it is to failure. Good luck even with sourcing slightly more common things like the IR305 in 15 years, or at least sourcing one which hasn't been taken from another synth with dying components

standalone · Post by **standalone** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:50 pm

PAK wrote: Modern computers are built like Lego too, meaning most people can replace a component themselves without paying (pretty expensive) techs to do it for them.

My home assurance includes free computer repair service since last year (replacement pieces excluded, of course). I wonder if someday they'll offer free hardware synths repair.

And about the 15 years omen, in 15 years there'll be ten times better plugins than today's ones and still cheap as chips, compared to hardware. And of course you'll be able to run dozens, if not hundreds of them in your computer.

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:52 pm

stillshaded wrote:All this said, I also have an sh09, it wipes the floor with any digital synth I've ever heard though

How about DIVA? The MS-20 oscillators through the Minimoog filter gets me some of my favorite "analog" sounds ever, even when compared to my real analogs.

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:57 pm

JimmiG wrote:The advantage of the hardware Virus with its analog outs is that 15 years from now, when people view PCI-Express the way we think of the ISA slot today (you remember ISA, don't you?), it will still work just fine as a standalone synthesizer.

True, and I'll be using a Minimoog if that happens. The TI is the main reason I'm a fan of the Virus.

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:03 pm

tehlord wrote:
aquar wrote:
A total newbie probably could sit down and produce a fairly decent dance track with the Virus assuming they have a few good ideas and listen to current trends.
So yeah in the right hands the Virus really is a hit machine because it was built for the kill.
The effects are already designed for a club type of sound and that helps a lot.
The same cant be said of a lot of softsynths that come drenched with in your face presets that sound like shit in a club.

This is complete and utter nonsense.

The virus is just another VA plugin with a large dongle. It sounds great, but it's really no different than using any other plugin except that it's not as flexible.

All he's really saying is that it has better presets than most softsynths, or at least presets that are more club/dance/popular music friendly. Is that really such complete and utter nonsense?

FWIW, I personally think Manuel Schleis's presets on the Virus sound better than his presets for native softsynths.

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:08 pm

tehlord wrote:The point is that a total newbie probably won't mix and pan them right. A virus doesn't offer a magic mixing solution just because some of the presets sound nice.

I was listening to a Porter Robinson track the other night and the only two pan positions were dead middle and super artificially-stereoized sides. The thing newbies and even most trained professionals does is mix the kick and bass too high, which can be rectified by a mastering engineer.

osiris · Post by **osiris** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:11 pm

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ACCESS-VIRUS-IN ... 450wt_1139

This ebay store offers a used Virus Indigo HD for ProTools for $99.00. Only 7 days left in the sale though.
Makes me wish I had ProTools....

JimmiG · Post by **JimmiG** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:13 pm

PAK wrote:What happened to the computer it's plugged into now? How did it just magic itself away? Why won't it be working in 15 years too? Also, why do you assume there will be no way to hook it up to a more modern machine? You've heard of things like a Magma chassis, right?

Software changes far more rapidly than hardware, making it very hard to maintain and integrate vintage computers in a studio.. I'm sure there will be a way, but it can't be more convenient than simply hooking up your Virus TI via MIDI and analog audio. I'd rather just keep and maintain a small desktop synthesizer than my bulky, noisy computer in the studio for 15 years. I'd also argue that a computer with its mechanical drives, many fans and heatsinks and high operating temperature is not as durable as a hardware synthesizer that doesn't even get warm to the touch and certainly doesn't need active cooling.

Another difference is, if something goes wrong in those 15 years, guess which one has the most parts which are easiest to repair? The one with custom surface mount components, where only a few thousand were made, or an appliance with mass manufactured drop in replacement parts readily available for dirt cheap via Ebay? Modern computers are built like Lego too, meaning most people can replace a component themselves without paying (pretty expensive) techs to do it for them.

Very little difference here. The PowerCore card is essentially the motherboard of a Virus (or any other hardware DSP-powered synth), minus the case, display and controllers. Everything except the actual chips can be easily replaced if you're skilled with that kind of thing. Those dirt-cheap computer parts will also age with time, especially since modern CPUs run at temperatures of 70C or more.

A giant quantity of Commodore 64 software is readily available on the internet and is ran more easily now than it was back then. As for the JX8P - If the aftertouch is still working after 26 years then that's quite an achievement given how prone it is to failure. Good luck even with sourcing slightly more common things like the IR305 in 15 years, or at least sourcing one which hasn't been taken from another synth with dying components

That's emulation, however. It's similar to someone making a VST version of the JX-8P (which does exist). The SID chip itself is required for an "authentic" sound.

The aftertouch is indeed working although it's not very responsive. However, it's a very simple construction. There's an easy guide on Youtube on how to fix it, but I can't be bothered since I play it with my MPK keyboard via...MIDI

Synthesizers built out of discrete components are of course even better since they're essentially invincible. Any discrete component can easily be replaced by something similar but more modern. Voltages and electrical current isn't going anywhere soon. I'd be more worried about the X86 instruction set

If you take it to the extreme, all integrated circuits will eventually fail, regardless of whether it's the DSP of a PowerCore card, that of a Virus TI synthesizer, or the last X86 processor on the planet capable of running our current VST's (the drawings for the X86 architecture were unfortunately burned during the zombie apocalypse and no one was able to reverse engineer it). But my point is that it's more convenient to just plug in a few cables into a Virus TI module than to keep an ancient computer running properly.

yerusalan · Post by **yerusalan** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:57 am

djanthonyw wrote:Sounds close enough to me...

http://www.vengeance-storage.com/AudioD ... zetav1.mp3
http://www.vengeance-storage.com/AudioD ... ss-iv4.mp3

Honestly, if z3ta was available for Mac, I would take that any day over a hardware Virus.

Virus just sounds sweet and you get that instant attack with bursting sound. Zeta is good in its own way - clean and with smooth dynamics. good info

HcDoom · Post by **HcDoom** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:32 am

I personally don't like z3ta v1 and v2. And comparing it to Virus is pointless imo. But, to each his own.

Johnny Cherry · Post by **Johnny Cherry** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:04 pm

Of course as already covered a pretty pointless subjective debate.

So on that note... I sold my TI as I needed the money at the time but I do really really regret it now. I have no idea if it "sounds better" than more modern VST (haven't heard DIVA yet) and don't really care. I was very happy with the sounds it could produce, it had a lot of depth, was a lot of fun to use and there was a certain quality to the whole experience that I've never experienced with an other software synth. The updates need a mention as well as they have really added to it over the years.

As I only make music for a hobby I think the actual experience and process of making music with synths is much more important to me than the final output and the TI was a fun instrument to use. When I have the spare cash I will no doubt buy another but couldn't justify it atm with the little time I do spend on music these days.

Access Virus vs. Z3TA2