KVR Audio

Starik · Post by **Starik** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:09 am

This topic was probably discussed on KVR but I couldn't find any useful info.

I just purchased Lemur, but stumbled upon Konkreet and it looks absolutely phenomenal! Now I'm thinking if I made a mistake buying Lemur. Basically all I need is to play with Ableton effects on the fly and Lemur seems like it has more control in terms of customization and everything. Kontkreet on the other hand seems easier to setup and use, at least that's my initial impression.

Would love to hear from anyone who has been playing with both apps especially in live environment. Which app is a better choice?

srcodling · Post by **srcodling** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:23 pm

wondering the same thing myself... anybody?

Grain Bastard · Post by **Grain Bastard** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:17 pm

Being 'stuck' with just Lemur isn't exactly the end of the world especially if your looking at 'controllers'

If you just wanted something to control Lives effects then there are lots of templates within the user library that are very Live-centric, so I'm sure there is or will be something very useful on that front. Lemur can be much more than just that task tho and depends on if your looking for the extra flexibility that it offers. I haven't tried Konkreet so I can't really comment on that being any 'better' than Lemur for what you hoped to achieve.

You might want to look at something like http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/touchabl ... 49475?mt=8 as this is a dedicated app for controlling Live whereas I think of Lemur as a kind of Reaktor for Midi-Toys

I wouldn't mind trying out KP but unfortunately you can't get demos very easily on the iPad. I'm pretty happy with Lemur but mainly because I like the fact that one minute its a Mackie Controller, the next a crazy interface for some Reaktor ensemble, then a midi sequencer for my hardware synths etc etc

To just control Lives effects then it might be that you turned up at a fist fight with a huge f**k-off gun..... Not always a bad thing in my book

Starik · Post by **Starik** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:49 pm

To just control Lives effects then it might be that you turned up at a fist fight with a huge f**k-off gun

Ha ha cheers man!

Starik · Post by **Starik** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:49 pm

So I purchased Konkreet Performer and I'll tell you it's a pain in the ass to make it work (it still doesn't btw). Lemur is soooo much easier, very intuitive and works flawlessly. Lemur community has already plenty of useful templates so that's an enormous help. With KP you need to purchase additional software called OSCulator that is not made by Konkreet therefore it's not clear whether the problem is with KP or this third party software. Liine has all the necessary tools already included with Lemur purchase.

I'm not slamming Konkreet but in contrary I really want to like KP. The interface is absolutely stunning and I'm sure once/if I get it running it can contribute to my live performances greatly. Would be good to hear from someone who was able to use KP and if there were connectivity problems how did you fix it?

mindnoise · Post by **mindnoise** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:16 pm

With KP your need 1. understand what OSC is and 2. need a DAW that understand OSC or as mentioned have a OSC to MIDI konverter. I use Reaktor so there is no problem here.

If you don't know what Open Sound Control is, google that first.

Lemur and KP are 2 totally different ways of controlling.

KP is like exploring sounds with gestures, subcontiously and intutively and journeying through a sound generator. After you set it up of course.
The interface design follows that idea, fitting in the improvisation theme perfectly.

Lemur and the other hand is more like directly and consciously controlling everything. There is no abstract in the parameter display. Making it ideal for live programms where you need to get somewhere on the spot.
Also Lemur is expandable as you see fit. KP hat it's fixed number of parameter it can control.

They are both on opposite sides of the scale.

hope this helps

Starik · Post by **Starik** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:39 pm

No it doesn't, but thanks

If you don't know what Open Sound Control is, google that first.

wow

Lemur and KP are 2 totally different ways of controlling.

I'm aware of that, it's not the point. KP is not connecting and so far I received zero useful answers that could help me to finally start using it instead of spending my time troubleshooting things.

mbncp · Post by **mbncp** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:36 pm

Why did they make KP OSC only ???
I don't have a single piece of gear that speaks it.
Just lazy or MIDI haters ???

mindnoise · Post by **mindnoise** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:21 pm

so, with the chance of not being helpful, again

did you check the KP homepage already?
there are tons of tutorials.

http://konkreetlabs.com/first-steps-con ... -computer/

besides that you gave us zero info on what you did try to set it up.
not even if you are on windows or os x.

for windows there is also
http://oscvstbridge.sourceforge.net/
and this, can also be used for OS X.
http://konkreetlabs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=62

there is also this,
http://www.bome.com/products/miditranslator
...more expensive the OSCulator but multi-platform.

if you are on the Mac you can install the Xcode SDK for free from the Mac App Store and use Quartz Composer to make you own interface, like described here:
http://hexler.net/blog/C10

mindnoise · Post by **mindnoise** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:32 pm

mbncp wrote:Why did they make KP OSC only ???
I don't have a single piece of gear that speaks it.
Just lazy or MIDI haters ???

The thing is OSC has 32 bit floating point resolution. And most MIDI Plug-ins do not interpolate the jump between the crude 127 steps resolution. XILS 3 from Xils Labs and some others do.

So using OSC with OSC capable host/plug-in, the parameter resolution of plug-ins can be easily e.g. track automation resolution (1024 steps) or even true OSC resolution.

and there are a lot of apps that support it already:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Sound_Control

Just because Cubase, Logic (not user accessable, yet) Live and Pro Tools don't have it doesn't mean anything or at least it indicates that they are behind the curve.

mbncp · Post by **mbncp** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:53 pm

mindnoise wrote:
mbncp wrote:Why did they make KP OSC only ???
I don't have a single piece of gear that speaks it.
Just lazy or MIDI haters ???
The thing is OSC has 32 bit floating point resolution. And most MIDI Plug-ins do not interpolate the jump between the crude 127 steps resolution. XILS 3 from Xils Labs and some others do.

So using OSC with OSC capable host/plug-in, the parameter resolution of plug-ins can easily (e.g. track automation resolution (1024 steps) or even true OSC resolution.

I guess that most people will use the osc to midi converter and loose all that in the conversion.
Also don't know if the app can deal with smaller ranges but the iPad certainly doesn't have a 32 bit touch resolution.
Sure part of it can be used for smoothing but then midi can also work with 14 bits which is more interesting imo, as a bunch of hw synth can use it directly and I also think that more host can deal with 14 bits midi than osc.

Anyway just saying, as I wanted to buy the app, but osc only made it a no go for me.

~Pd~ · Post by **~Pd~** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:53 pm

mindnoise wrote:KP is like exploring sounds with gestures, subcontiously and intutively and journeying through a sound generator. After you set it up of course.
The interface design follows that idea, fitting in the improvisation theme perfectly.

Well said. That sums it up pretty well.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:00 pm

mindnoise wrote: Just because Cubase, Logic (not user accessable, yet) Live and Pro Tools don't have it doesn't mean anything or at least it indicates that they are behind the curve.

Just for the record OSC can be used with Live via LiveOSC and also max4live.

Lemur vs. Konkreet Performer