Hi everyone... I just downloaded the RapidComposer LE demo. I like it, and I'm no stranger to music theory... but, can someone please tell me how to get started?
The manual is only 13 pages. Compared to Harmony Navigator (www.cognitone.com), this program seems a bit more useful for songwriting, but HN seems easier to use overall. I have the full version of HN (longtime customer). I mainly downloaded RC because I never really use HN because it's more for seeing which chords work together, than a program which helps you come up with cool progressions and phrases such as this.
I just need help navigating the program.
Also, when you use the Generator patterns... each time you set the parameters in the leftmost window, when you generate a new random pattern, it never remembers your settings and you always have to reset the parameters (unless you click "preview" and then "apply to selection"-- but you can't simply use the one-click method of "generic" in the middle window.) Confusing.
Here's another weird one, regarding the Generic Generator. If I click it each time in the middle window, I hear the pattern applied with the piano soundfont sound. When I set the parameters in the leftmost window, it always previews with the Warm Pad sound when I click Preview. How can I make it preview with the piano sound?
There's SO much potential with this program... an insane amount. But it is extremely hard to use, especially for a newbie like myself. I figured out ways to create a basic 4-chord progression and then used the Generator parameters to generate a chord arpeggio pattern that I like, but beyond that, I am LOST!
Can anyone shed some light? THANKS!
Trying to understand how to USE this.... with a 13-page manual??!!!
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- KVRist
- 222 posts since 13 May, 2004
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- KVRist
- 35 posts since 21 Mar, 2011
Hi bc, this probably won't answer your call's for help on this package, rather it's responding to your mention of Harmony Navigator, help and support
Agree with your comments, it is a confusing program to get your head around and the work flow is somewhat strange, though you'll be quite surprised at how little knowledge can produce very useable results.
Like yourself, Harmony Navigator was purchased a few years ago. It quite rapidly became absolutely useless and a waste of money, mainly because of it's insistence in using a the widows gm synth, as a DSP sound card user which means that any internal sound system setup was disabled by jumpers on the motherboard or later in BIOS it became a very expensive icon that when it was run, produced absolute silence! Also it's sound selection and setup process was an absolute nightmare, (though some people really got off on it) It seemed more of an educational rather than compositioninal tool.
It was eventually installed on a laptop and used to generate chord progressions though, unfortunately, the midi export of those files left a lot to be desired and despite numerous submissions to forums, bug fixes and updates were very few and far between (though I do believe a recent update has been released addressing some issues, though two years after purchase)
Following that experience, great hesitance has been shown in speculative purchase of such software such as Rapid Composer and use of it has so far been based on free trial versions, and quite honestly, there's no comparison, Rapid Composer is, (to these eyes and ears)a far superior product.
The use of sound fonts allow it to be used on any system regardless of audio interface and other bespoke setups (brilliant for a laptop for anywhere creativity) and a VST plug-in is already available and (almost) working properly. Any annoyances that have been encountered and posted on this forum have seem to have been dealt with prompt response - and bug fixes and work around released with in days, or even hours, which has been really encouraging.
The main draw backs seem, as you mention, is where on earth to start with it all, there are just so many tabs, boxes and menus and screens with no clear workflow that leads a user in the right direction and, unfortunately, the VST plug-in uses such a huge amount of screen real estate, it's not very appealing n the least, though it does work and is being updated (from what has been noticed) as per user requests rather than company/author ideology (with out loosing sight of what it's meant to be) which is quite refreshing and commendable in this day and age.
As a stand alone package, it does actually (despite it's oddities) do what it says on the tin so speak, and with a new version 2 due for imminent release, looks to be really exciting as an compositional tool.
As a VST plug-in(which so far, from demo versions) it also looks to be a really exciting tool and the demo version, despite a few issues has been used to great effect, be it simply having to hand a preset library of favourite motifs and chord progressions that can be transposed to any key and modified in many ways, to a tool that can be easily used to kick start completely fresh ideas.
There are of course many things that many people would want or question, for example, as a plug-in midi effecter/phrase generator or modifier, does it really need to have a 128 midi channel output on a single track? to this mind, no, it would be better that the plug-in version be far simpler, allowing an (low resource use) instance on many tracks rather than one track trying to generate 128 parts and channels simultaneously and personaly, the "2d" track display is certainly not very pleasing, easy on the eye and really annoying as a plugin whilst trying to follow a time line or long track.
Whatever, this IS an exciting package and from this end seems to be very much on the shopping list as something that can be used in so many ways and still be useable in a few years down the line, providing real value for money and a very useable life span, looking forwars to trying the new vers 2 before finally commiting.
As far as a user manual goes, do you not think that a series of short video tutorials and walk throughs on each specific function would be of far greater benefit to new users, rather than pages upon pages of a in depth PDF manual?
Agree with your comments, it is a confusing program to get your head around and the work flow is somewhat strange, though you'll be quite surprised at how little knowledge can produce very useable results.
Like yourself, Harmony Navigator was purchased a few years ago. It quite rapidly became absolutely useless and a waste of money, mainly because of it's insistence in using a the widows gm synth, as a DSP sound card user which means that any internal sound system setup was disabled by jumpers on the motherboard or later in BIOS it became a very expensive icon that when it was run, produced absolute silence! Also it's sound selection and setup process was an absolute nightmare, (though some people really got off on it) It seemed more of an educational rather than compositioninal tool.
It was eventually installed on a laptop and used to generate chord progressions though, unfortunately, the midi export of those files left a lot to be desired and despite numerous submissions to forums, bug fixes and updates were very few and far between (though I do believe a recent update has been released addressing some issues, though two years after purchase)
Following that experience, great hesitance has been shown in speculative purchase of such software such as Rapid Composer and use of it has so far been based on free trial versions, and quite honestly, there's no comparison, Rapid Composer is, (to these eyes and ears)a far superior product.
The use of sound fonts allow it to be used on any system regardless of audio interface and other bespoke setups (brilliant for a laptop for anywhere creativity) and a VST plug-in is already available and (almost) working properly. Any annoyances that have been encountered and posted on this forum have seem to have been dealt with prompt response - and bug fixes and work around released with in days, or even hours, which has been really encouraging.
The main draw backs seem, as you mention, is where on earth to start with it all, there are just so many tabs, boxes and menus and screens with no clear workflow that leads a user in the right direction and, unfortunately, the VST plug-in uses such a huge amount of screen real estate, it's not very appealing n the least, though it does work and is being updated (from what has been noticed) as per user requests rather than company/author ideology (with out loosing sight of what it's meant to be) which is quite refreshing and commendable in this day and age.
As a stand alone package, it does actually (despite it's oddities) do what it says on the tin so speak, and with a new version 2 due for imminent release, looks to be really exciting as an compositional tool.
As a VST plug-in(which so far, from demo versions) it also looks to be a really exciting tool and the demo version, despite a few issues has been used to great effect, be it simply having to hand a preset library of favourite motifs and chord progressions that can be transposed to any key and modified in many ways, to a tool that can be easily used to kick start completely fresh ideas.
There are of course many things that many people would want or question, for example, as a plug-in midi effecter/phrase generator or modifier, does it really need to have a 128 midi channel output on a single track? to this mind, no, it would be better that the plug-in version be far simpler, allowing an (low resource use) instance on many tracks rather than one track trying to generate 128 parts and channels simultaneously and personaly, the "2d" track display is certainly not very pleasing, easy on the eye and really annoying as a plugin whilst trying to follow a time line or long track.
Whatever, this IS an exciting package and from this end seems to be very much on the shopping list as something that can be used in so many ways and still be useable in a few years down the line, providing real value for money and a very useable life span, looking forwars to trying the new vers 2 before finally commiting.
As far as a user manual goes, do you not think that a series of short video tutorials and walk throughs on each specific function would be of far greater benefit to new users, rather than pages upon pages of a in depth PDF manual?
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 222 posts since 13 May, 2004
Excellent response!
I fully agree with you about HN vs. RC. RC is a far easier program to use. The soundfont thing is HUGE! Plus, it can host VSTs... which is even better.
I haven't run it as a VST yet. Still trying to get the hang of it in standalone. I sent Attila a bunch of emails with bug reports and feature requests. He was quick to respond. I like that.
At first, Andre from Cognitone was quick to respond... but when he started putting all his efforts into Synfire, which I believe is absolute waste of money in general... because if it's designed for composers... don't you think that composers usually already have a GREAT ability to play piano, and arrange songs? I mean, I would never call myself a composer. Songwriter at best. But it just seems SO ridiculously expensive, and it is SO hard to use, still. From what I've read about composers... they are virtuosos at pianos, and notation... and coming up with great phrases and entire pieces... and they don't need any help from a program to do that.
Furthermore, HN2 -- ok, it seems like HN1 was far more complete than HN2... so it's a stupid idea to upgrade. HN1 IS HN2 the Advanced Version, for the same price. I don't understand Andre's thinking when it comes to that program. HN2 the LE version is just a stupid chord grid/diagram... HN1 at least lets you import midi phrases and harmonize them.... the upgrade is unnecessary. But then again it all goes back to this: it's such a convoluted program to use.
At first I thought that about RC, but the more I mess with it, the more I enjoy it.
It still needs a LOT of work, though. I would love to see what Atilla has planned for version 2.
What are some of your feature requests for the program (or things you hate about it, AND love about it), and how do you use it as a VST?
Thanks again for the lengthy reply.
I fully agree with you about HN vs. RC. RC is a far easier program to use. The soundfont thing is HUGE! Plus, it can host VSTs... which is even better.
I haven't run it as a VST yet. Still trying to get the hang of it in standalone. I sent Attila a bunch of emails with bug reports and feature requests. He was quick to respond. I like that.
At first, Andre from Cognitone was quick to respond... but when he started putting all his efforts into Synfire, which I believe is absolute waste of money in general... because if it's designed for composers... don't you think that composers usually already have a GREAT ability to play piano, and arrange songs? I mean, I would never call myself a composer. Songwriter at best. But it just seems SO ridiculously expensive, and it is SO hard to use, still. From what I've read about composers... they are virtuosos at pianos, and notation... and coming up with great phrases and entire pieces... and they don't need any help from a program to do that.
Furthermore, HN2 -- ok, it seems like HN1 was far more complete than HN2... so it's a stupid idea to upgrade. HN1 IS HN2 the Advanced Version, for the same price. I don't understand Andre's thinking when it comes to that program. HN2 the LE version is just a stupid chord grid/diagram... HN1 at least lets you import midi phrases and harmonize them.... the upgrade is unnecessary. But then again it all goes back to this: it's such a convoluted program to use.
At first I thought that about RC, but the more I mess with it, the more I enjoy it.
It still needs a LOT of work, though. I would love to see what Atilla has planned for version 2.
What are some of your feature requests for the program (or things you hate about it, AND love about it), and how do you use it as a VST?
Thanks again for the lengthy reply.
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musicdevelopments musicdevelopments https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=223336 - KVRAF
- 6014 posts since 9 Jan, 2010
Thank you for the long reply, outsounder! I really appreciate sharing your thoughts with us.
bc/Chris, please read the 'where do I start?' thread, if you haven't already done that:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=324234
Have a nice day!
Attila
bc/Chris, please read the 'where do I start?' thread, if you haven't already done that:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=324234
Have a nice day!
Attila
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- KVRist
- 35 posts since 21 Mar, 2011
LOL bc !
You clearly state what I eluded to with regards to HN - There was initial response to many posts from numerous people regarding it's shortfalls and issues, though as you mention, those responses very soon changed into endless statements and hype about the development of Synfire and how wonderful that was going to be when completed - at a price that could easily buy a state of art PC, sound card and top notch, well supported established DAW. Of course, it was stated that all this development work in Synfire would EVENTUALLY trickle down into HN, though how many years later one must ask? Cognitone seem intent on trying to perfect the "roof" of their house with Synfire without first getting the foundations, stability and usefulness of HN (and a rock solid, happy user base) in place first. Self inflicted financial suicide or a chart topper years in the making? Only time will tell !
There really is no comparison though, Rapid Composer, despite all it's rather dated and cumbersome cosmetic look and feel is by far the better and easier package to get some really good mileage out of. In fact, in can in it's own way, even as it is, be an inspirational and enjoyable package to play with.
I am saving my pennies with bated breath for the highly anticipated Version 2 ! I think at a fair price point, a few little bugs are quite easy to live with (god knows, there's been years of that with Cubase and the likes!) 99 euros for a plug in should be worth an initial gamble, though at 295 for the full package, it's gonna have to be both rock solid and really visually appealing. At that price point, despite it's unique ability as a compositional tool, it would ( however unfairly) be compared to established DAW's by any press reviewer so, there's a lot riding on the new release, fingers are crossed they get it right, it really does have incredible potential for any user , from the casual hobbyist through to established artists as they say.
As well as the full version, I REALLY love the thought of a leaner plug-in of this product, like many people, collections of midi files and scratchpad ideas has become the equivalent to what collecting and keeping samples was before the advent of properly organised libraries we have today. One example might be the the Prosonic studios midi collection which at 75 dollars, filled a drive up with 314,000, 4 bar midi chord progressions and variations in just about every key and inversion imaginable, a bargain some might say, but any inspiration soon turned into hair pulling anger and frustration, wading through and previewing them looking for a match ! A complete nightmare, thank goodness I only got one out of there substantial collection od midi CD's! Cubase media browser took HOURS trying to catalogue them before crashing ! Thank goodness I only got that one, needless to say, hardly used it at all.
With RC, there's no such hassle, a single carefully setup chord progression is all you need, it can be pulled up and down into any key, extended, varied and morphed into all sorts, and save it back to the library, perfect ! Another use is a bit more of a challenge, get a few books (or midi files) and put in some PROPER orchestral voicing's for choirs, string and brass sections etc and your suddenly into a whole new world off orchestral arranging, something I have no Knowledge of what so ever, (and I'm certainly not a keyboard player by any stretch, although I have one of course) so hearing my orchestral Kontakt libraries in a whole new world of such beautiful sound, is amazing, with a bit of tweaking in RC and Cubase, it's possible to produce really great authentic passages that would have been totally impossible to me before, of course, thay can all be saved into phrases section to be used in any way you want. An even better result? Those 314,000 midi files no longer clog up my system, result !!!
Still, having said that, I still don't think a 128 midi channels are needed, unless of course Atilla and his team (if he has one) come up with the algorithms to orchestrate and idea from a few bars from me, I'd be delighted ! Though currently, six channels are good for general use, bass, drums, keys, strings and a melody. An eight channel plug-in in one DAW midi track connected to a single instance of a 8 instrument Kontakt multi would be perfect !
Hope the OSX poerting has gone well and we won't have to wait to long foe vers 2 !
You clearly state what I eluded to with regards to HN - There was initial response to many posts from numerous people regarding it's shortfalls and issues, though as you mention, those responses very soon changed into endless statements and hype about the development of Synfire and how wonderful that was going to be when completed - at a price that could easily buy a state of art PC, sound card and top notch, well supported established DAW. Of course, it was stated that all this development work in Synfire would EVENTUALLY trickle down into HN, though how many years later one must ask? Cognitone seem intent on trying to perfect the "roof" of their house with Synfire without first getting the foundations, stability and usefulness of HN (and a rock solid, happy user base) in place first. Self inflicted financial suicide or a chart topper years in the making? Only time will tell !
There really is no comparison though, Rapid Composer, despite all it's rather dated and cumbersome cosmetic look and feel is by far the better and easier package to get some really good mileage out of. In fact, in can in it's own way, even as it is, be an inspirational and enjoyable package to play with.
I am saving my pennies with bated breath for the highly anticipated Version 2 ! I think at a fair price point, a few little bugs are quite easy to live with (god knows, there's been years of that with Cubase and the likes!) 99 euros for a plug in should be worth an initial gamble, though at 295 for the full package, it's gonna have to be both rock solid and really visually appealing. At that price point, despite it's unique ability as a compositional tool, it would ( however unfairly) be compared to established DAW's by any press reviewer so, there's a lot riding on the new release, fingers are crossed they get it right, it really does have incredible potential for any user , from the casual hobbyist through to established artists as they say.
As well as the full version, I REALLY love the thought of a leaner plug-in of this product, like many people, collections of midi files and scratchpad ideas has become the equivalent to what collecting and keeping samples was before the advent of properly organised libraries we have today. One example might be the the Prosonic studios midi collection which at 75 dollars, filled a drive up with 314,000, 4 bar midi chord progressions and variations in just about every key and inversion imaginable, a bargain some might say, but any inspiration soon turned into hair pulling anger and frustration, wading through and previewing them looking for a match ! A complete nightmare, thank goodness I only got one out of there substantial collection od midi CD's! Cubase media browser took HOURS trying to catalogue them before crashing ! Thank goodness I only got that one, needless to say, hardly used it at all.
With RC, there's no such hassle, a single carefully setup chord progression is all you need, it can be pulled up and down into any key, extended, varied and morphed into all sorts, and save it back to the library, perfect ! Another use is a bit more of a challenge, get a few books (or midi files) and put in some PROPER orchestral voicing's for choirs, string and brass sections etc and your suddenly into a whole new world off orchestral arranging, something I have no Knowledge of what so ever, (and I'm certainly not a keyboard player by any stretch, although I have one of course) so hearing my orchestral Kontakt libraries in a whole new world of such beautiful sound, is amazing, with a bit of tweaking in RC and Cubase, it's possible to produce really great authentic passages that would have been totally impossible to me before, of course, thay can all be saved into phrases section to be used in any way you want. An even better result? Those 314,000 midi files no longer clog up my system, result !!!
Still, having said that, I still don't think a 128 midi channels are needed, unless of course Atilla and his team (if he has one) come up with the algorithms to orchestrate and idea from a few bars from me, I'd be delighted ! Though currently, six channels are good for general use, bass, drums, keys, strings and a melody. An eight channel plug-in in one DAW midi track connected to a single instance of a 8 instrument Kontakt multi would be perfect !
Hope the OSX poerting has gone well and we won't have to wait to long foe vers 2 !
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- KVRian
- 1201 posts since 25 Sep, 2002
Interesting discussion, I've been watchin RC for a while it looks an interesting program but I'm yet to actually try the demo! I also have HN but it rarely gets used nowadays for similar reasons to those voiced. If I try this demo then I have a strong suspicion that I may just have to buy it anyway, I should've taken advantage of the discount a few months back!
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musicdevelopments musicdevelopments https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=223336
- KVRAF
- 6014 posts since 9 Jan, 2010
There will be a sale in April for the 2nd birthday of RapidComposer 
Unfortunately the OS X version will not be ready by that time.
Thanks,
Attila
Unfortunately the OS X version will not be ready by that time.
Thanks,
Attila
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- KVRian
- 1201 posts since 25 Sep, 2002
That's good news Attila, just 8 days to go ....
Early Happy Birthday!!
Early Happy Birthday!!
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- KVRian
- 1201 posts since 25 Sep, 2002
Happy Birthday to ya, Happy Birthday to ya, Happy Birthday ....
????
????
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musicdevelopments musicdevelopments https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=223336
- KVRAF
- 6014 posts since 9 Jan, 2010
I need a few hours until I update the web page, pricing, etc.I'll post an announcement on this forum when it's done.
Thank you!!!!
Attila
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musicdevelopments musicdevelopments https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=223336
- KVRAF
- 6014 posts since 9 Jan, 2010
The web page and pricing is updated now.
The sale starts now! 20% discount until April 20th.
RapidComposer=USD 236, LE=USD 79
Cheers,
Attila
The sale starts now! 20% discount until April 20th.
RapidComposer=USD 236, LE=USD 79
Cheers,
Attila
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- KVRian
- 1201 posts since 25 Sep, 2002
It is indeed and you now have another customer - Thank you!
I also bumped this offer over in the Market Place / Bargains.
I also bumped this offer over in the Market Place / Bargains.
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musicdevelopments musicdevelopments https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=223336
- KVRAF
- 6014 posts since 9 Jan, 2010
Thank you, Don!!!
Have a nice day!
Attila
Have a nice day!
Attila