Musikmesse 2012: Propellerhead to share "exciting news"

[hotmitts]

..This makes sense for Reason because it is already a closed system. It's opening up a market that wasn't there before, not constricting an already flourishing market.

Good point there.

[Mattox]

The number of employees in a company has nothing to do with how popular their product is. I.e.: Reaper. For all we know Reason has 2x as many customers as Ableton.

When the App store came to be everyone whined about the 30% (even I did) but once we got used to it, it ended up actually brining in just as much if not more $$ than sales from our website.

When you have an all in one ecosystem with the ability to buy and have something instantly delivered without having to f**k around with downloading, installing, scanning for plugins, authorizing and having to learn a new UI you see a much stronger desire for a customer to make an impulse purchase & purchase more often.

[KBSoundSmith]

One thing that has not been talked about here is what will companies like Native and Spectrasonics do. Is PH going to support sample libaries that large? I understand taking a synth and making modular Re's, but what happens when your plugin has a large libarary? Also if Steinberg follows and makes there own closed plugin format dropping Vst support. Things can get pretty interesting, or maybe not. I just can not see all the DAW's watching this happen with out some kind of reaction. Lets just hope it all benefits the end user and music being made and not these corprate giants...

I have a hard time imagining either Spectrasonics or Native Instruments getting involved with REs; definitely not with their current products. First, they both have all the name recognition, exposure, distribution, and market share that they want. They don't need a third party like Props to sell their premium products, especially not at a 30% cut. Second, I think the market they target is a little different than that of Propellerheads. Third, in many ways, their products are probably too similar in function/too directly competitive to consider it. What makes NI products different from Reason (aside from the current sound quality and status...)? NI doesn't have the vanity of including a closed-environment sequencer. Otherwise, the role filled by their products are about the same.

And I have a harder time imagining Steinberg dropping VST.

[emtear]

Also if Steinberg follows

When has Steinberg followed Propellerheads? Why they should? They are worlds apart.

If they are worlds apart then I assuming that Steinberg has more users right? So if Steinberg sees PH successfully making 30% off a plugin standard would they not in their own right want a piece of that too?

What PH is about to do will most likely change the hole game. They are about to hold a torch and run with it. They only way this will not be a success is if they trip themselves.

[emtear]

IMO some kind of reaction is surely on the way. I would say the question is when not if. But what kind of reaction that is, only time will tell. There is no way Re will take off and not get some kind of response from other host devs even if it is just one or two. A possible slice of each developer apps is far too big a carrot IMO for other devs to ignore as it could be extremely lucrative long term.

Exactly.

Host Devs are used to getting VST plugins for their hosts and that is it. Now the Props are turning that idea on it's head and looking to make money from each app / plug in their shop. That cannot be ignored by other devs in such a fiercely competitive DAW market.

Especially with the idea that PH will work with the dev. to make their ideas work, test the plugins insuring there are no issues, and allow the users to keep all the licences on one key and use the software anywhere.

I think other dev's will surely want that 30% cut or similar. It just a case of what (bigger) carrot / shop set up will do it for them if Props shop can work. The bigger problem here is VST plugs do not require a cut of any sort AFAICT so maybe a proprietary format is the only way to justify it like Re. Still I doubt it is impossible to say...ask for 10% and offer copy protection and distribution even for VST plugs. VST devs might accept that if they feel a Cake shop or Steinberg shop saves them enough money on copy protection and distribution / visibility / marketing.

That is my point if all DAW's follow which I cannot imagine them not, they will pretty much have the dev. at their mercy.

Either way I just cannot see Re taking off with no response from other Devs. That 30% cut is just too lucrative for a Host dev that can make their shop offering work.

Point made!

Matt

[emtear]

The good news, for me and other plugin developers, is that I don't think Propellerhead is anywhere near big enough a company to force these changes through.

This is more like bad news, if a small company can make a profit that means a big company can make a bigger profit.

Matt

[emtear]

The Propshop could simply ask the dev for a time sensitive link to use for downloading content.

PH said they will host all plugins, all versions, forever...

Unless they change this that means when I sit at any computer I can plug in my stick and have access to all the plugins I own by pressing the download button.

This would not work with a time sensitive link. Nor would any developer want their libraries downloaded online. That would really not help piracy of their content.

Matt

[bangzero]

a couple of sources are saying that there is more to the Re story than has been disclosed so far. so looking at this from a different perspective perhaps, i'd like to ask for ideas on what additional elements would make Re a big win-win for everyone? a couple of things spring to mind for me: Reason Essentials as a vst, and killer good gui tools for developers. a cheap vst host for Re plugins would make whatever value adds Re plugins have when combined in the "richer" Re environment accessible outside that environment. (Rewire is just too clutzy for my workflow. ymmv.) and exceptional gui tools might ease the way and lower the cost of entry for new and old developers.

anyone else with good ideas here? what would it take to make Re work for you Sean?

enjoy! /dan

[emtear]

I wouldn't be afraid at all of a closed plugin format/store happening with any of the DAWs that currently host AU/VST. It wouldn't make sense for them and customers wouldn't like it.

Most of the choices Steinberg makes does not make sense and customers don't like.

Read their forums.

[emtear]

a couple of sources are saying that there is more to the Re story than has been disclosed so far. so looking at this from a different perspective perhaps, i'd like to ask for ideas on what additional elements would make Re a big win-win for everyone? a couple of things spring to mind for me: Reason Essentials as a vst, and killer good gui tools for developers. a cheap vst host for Re plugins would make whatever value adds Re plugins have when combined in the "richer" Re environment accessible outside that environment. (Rewire is just too clutzy for my workflow. ymmv.) and exceptional gui tools might ease the way and lower the cost of entry for new and old developers.

anyone else with good ideas here? what would it take to make Re work for you Sean?

enjoy! /dan

Reason Essentials as a vst and a cheap vst host for Re plugins will never happen. PH is not going to let this out of their environment.

Just look at what Urs has been saying. PH is willing to work with him to make his plugins run as a Re. I doubt Steinberg has ever spoken to a Urs about improving VST.

I think between the easy porting, contact with dev and the flexibility inside reason I think the story will never be finished.

[emtear]

They don't need a third party like Props to sell their premium products, especially not at a 30% cut.

And I have a harder time imagining Steinberg dropping VST.

But I am sure Steinberg will like a 30% cut...

Money talks...

[eXode]

The good news, for me and other plugin developers, is that I don't think Propellerhead is anywhere near big enough a company to force these changes through. Propellerhead has 35+ employees. For comparison, Ableton probably has over 100 employees. Native Instruments (a plugin developer) has 270+ employees. Waves is over 100 employees IIRC. Steinberg is owned by Yamaha, which has several thousand employees. Avid laid off several hundred employees last fall, and still has a few thousand left on board. These companies are probably not going to take their direction from Propellerhead.

Sean Costello

Sean.

To measure a company's influence or user base solely on the amount of people working for that company is looking at the wrong things.

No one can deny that propellerhead has always been a small company that has often had a big influence in the music world. Don't forget about ReCycle and the REX format (show me a host that doesn't support REX?). Don't forget about ReBirth and ReWire (say what you want about it, how many hosts doesn't support ReWire today?) and then after all that comes Reason. You can argue about how many pro's that use or do not use Reason, but it's strength is that it's been accessible for a large market, and that is has an passionate user base (on the verge of fanatical at times, I guess I'm proof of that ;p). You have gotten proof of it's passionate users as well, in the way of e-mails asking about your plugins as RE's (which you should take as a compliment, imho).

Have you thought about it the other way around? What if this RE store goes incredibly well for props? One might argue that if this becomes a great success, the other companies might just as well follow with their own solutions, after props have tested the waters.

So, assuming that other companies won't follow based on the number of people working for propellerhead is, well, risky. Regardless of your own personal feelings for the business model as such. :)

Kind regards

[samsam]

Have you thought about it the other way around? What if this RE store goes incredibly well for props? One might argue that if this becomes a great success, the other companies might just as well follow with their own solutions, after props have tested the waters.



Kind regards

How many other companies produce pseudo-DAWS that don't accept recognised plug-in formats and thus need to invent their own and hope devs come on board?

[standalone]

Also if Steinberg follows

When has Steinberg followed Propellerheads? Why they should? They are worlds apart.

If they are worlds apart then I assuming that Steinberg has more users right? So if Steinberg sees PH successfully making 30% off a plugin standard would they not in their own right want a piece of that too?

What PH is about to do will most likely change the hole game. They are about to hold a torch and run with it. They only way this will not be a success is if they trip themselves.

'Worlds apart' means completely different phylosophies, nothing more.

[glokraw]

Just gonna chime in to say I (and the rest of the company I assume) really enjoy this discussion - very constructive! We take all feedback into account.

I would think a similar plan to the Custom Shop model that IK has used
would be a natural for your company. Many vst users like your instruments,
but have not purchased the total package. Try selling the framework,
and choice of any one instrument, for $40, and you'll have lots of takers.
Price the new ones just low enough to beat the competition,
and let new users add to their collection of the original instruments,
at rock-bottom pricing. You'll nab the hold-outs, and folks
who can't afford, or didn't want/need the whole enchilada,
over a period of time, while not restricting new developers to
the burdens of the previous sales model.
Good luck in the new endeavors
Cheers