Musikmesse 2012: Propellerhead to share "exciting news"

[headquest]

I guess it's like furnishing your home in a way - you could buy absolutely everything from IKEA and spend less time shopping around, but more time connecting it all together.

Not to mention you have competition for low prices for your furniture, and buy it used. There are certain plugins that I have that if I bought new would have been 75% more.

See, Propellerhead's Ernst is able to point out what he sees as the weaknesses of using VSTs, but there are, and will remain, huge advantages (which obviously he's not about to advertise)

+ Freedom of Choice for the user
+ Flexibility to use in multiple hosts (e.g. notation software like Sibelius/etc, Audio editing and mastering programmes such as Audition/Wavelab/etc)
+ Hardware acceleration
+ VST3 Note Expression (a major innovation I think, but one PH don't seem aware of even)
+ VST3 dynamic scaling to CPU (or whatever it is called...)
+ Option to avoid using dongles/Codemeter (important for those of us who have had driver conflicts - but PH proved they aren't reallyh interested in this when I reported it)
+ many more that are mentioned in this thread already...

Did anyone yet mention ARA - the new technology that allows Melodynne to be directly integrated into Studio One v2, and which potentially revolutionises how plug-ins work??

But to me the big one will remain this: Freedom of Choice.

Why? - because this is what drives innovation.

Propellerhead's closed system is, and will always be, about conforming to their vision and specification only. And they aren't exactly willing to take much notice of user requests, as any long term user will know (e.g.the requests that eXode has mentioned)

Most of the major innovations in music technology in the last decade would not have happened if the industry let itself be bound to Propellerhead's way of working. Let's hope that the next decade goes the same way, and that genuine innovation doesn't get squashed by the likes of Propellerhead/AVID/etc.

[sensorium]

Now, I was going to go shopping this afternoon in IKEA, but after reading this thread, I think I should go to high class boutique instead and pay four times as much for a table which is going to be covered in a table cloth anyway.

Ohhhhh no he didn't!!!

No offence intended to headquest, couldn't resist

At least a car analogy hasn't been brought into the discussion, and for that we can all be thankful!

[headquest]

LOL. None taken. And I intended no offence to people who populate their homes entirely with IKEA furniture...

...just bear in mind if youi buy one of their beds, you will be trapped buying your mattresses and bedding from their store forever. They have their own bespoke bed sizes that are incompatible with everyone else in the world

[EnochLight]

At least a car analogy hasn't been brought into the discussion, and for that we can all be thankful!

Ha!! Yes - very true.

[sensorium]

...just bear in mind if youi buy one of their beds, you will be trapped buying your mattresses and bedding from their store forever. They have their own bespoke bed sizes that are incompatible with everyone else in the world

Touche!

[headquest]

...just bear in mind if youi buy one of their beds, you will be trapped buying your mattresses and bedding from their store forever. They have their own bespoke bed sizes that are incompatible with everyone else in the world

Touche!

On the plus side, this means you don't have to waste your time looking at the beautiful bedding on sale elsewhere, or opening accounts with any other store

[EnochLight]

Propellerhead.... aren't exactly willing to take much notice of user requests, as any long term user will know (e.g.the requests that eXode has mentioned)

This is utterly false and a gross generalization. Just because some of the feature requests that users have asked for haven't been met (VSTi and MIDI out) doesn't mean they don't listen to their user requests. Almost every new feature you see in Reason since 1.0 appeared came at the request of users, and/or had already been planned anyway.

[UltraJv]

This is the way the whole market is going. Apple Pioneered the AppStore, Google copied them, Microsoft are rewriting Windows to bring this in. Propellerhead are smart and have realized this is the way forward. Let me give you an example. My iPhone breaks and I have a replacement. For the 30 apps I've bought do I have to spend a day going through developers websites, downloading and installing software, locating license keys somewhere in my email history, going through challenge response authorization. No, I just log into my account and all the software I've bought is reinstalled automatically. If any software is updated I'm notified and I just press one button to update it. This is what consumers are expecting now - ease of use.

Actually it was Palm who pioneered the appstore over 10 years ago. It was called Addit. LIke most things, Apple is playing catch up and saying they were first

http://bluefishwireless.com/addit/index.html

That aside, its only useful for small apps. Try it with multi gig sample libraries and its useless.

[9headshydra]

+ Hardware acceleration
+ VST3 Note Expression (a major innovation I think, but one PH don't seem aware of even)
+ VST3 dynamic scaling to CPU (or whatever it is called...)
+ Option to avoid using dongles/Codemeter (important for those of us who have had driver conflicts - but PH proved they aren't reallyh interested in this when I reported it)

I don't see any advantage with the last CPU in using over expensive DSP card

ssl / TC electronic quitted the market, only UA still use it for its only own advantage, you can buy a very powerfull computer / laptop for the price of an UAD quad,

its also the main reason why I stop investment in UAD system, I just can't accept anymore how they milk the cow with their DSP cards

VST3 tech is still not use by most plugin software companies,

dongles, most of the companies use copy protections, most of them are just annoying for consumers and just don't work, code meter is still uncracked (note I'm not a big fan of CP, just I can't support something that just don't even work)

I'm still waiting the release of R6.5 before judging what RE could offer to reason users, but I think it will bring a superior experience.

add the store concept, wich i think is a great thing for paying customers,

pure personnal opinion obsviously

[EnochLight]

Apple is playing catch up and saying they were first

All things being equal, it's not like Apple is playing catch up... Palm no longer exists! Also, Palm's app store was no where NEAR as streamlined as Apple's version, nor was the services Palm offered at the time any comparison to what a consumer gets in iOS and Apple's store.

Just say'n...

[UltraJv]

Apple is playing catch up and saying they were first

All things being equal, it's not like Apple is playing catch up... Palm no longer exists! Also, Palm's app store was no where NEAR as streamlined as Apple's version, nor was the services Palm offered at the time any comparison to what a consumer gets in iOS and Apple's store.

Just say'n...

Of course Appled added shine to it, thats what they do. They just added virus protection on OSX too. Catchup, yes. Pioneering? no

[EnochLight]

Of course Appled added shine to it, thats what they do. They just added virus protection on OSX too. Catchup, yes. Pioneering? no

What you may perceive as catch up, others may see as perfection. They haven't hit $600/share and become one of the world's leading consumer electronics companies by just playing catchup. That said, the whole Apple conundrum should probably go into its own thread! ;^)

[christianmusicmaker]

Wow... just have to mention - for a thread at KVR that seems to bring out so many perspectives from all sides, at over 65,000 views and almost 900 replies, I'd say that Propellerhead Reason is a lot more popular than many here would like to believe!

Could be but the Propeller head Record KVR Thread ran to 121 pages (yes you read that correctly) and that product is not even sold by Propellerheads any more AFAICT. This is a great thread discussion topic but definitely not nearly an indicator of product /concept success.

Curiosity might better describe it instead of popularity. Not saying it is not a very popular product but 121 pages did not help Record stay on Propellerhead product shelves for very long.

You can see how many pages that Record thread has for yourself here.

Still it is great discussing things like this and putting ideas forward. Props seem to be listening as well.

[EnochLight]

Wow... just have to mention - for a thread at KVR that seems to bring out so many perspectives from all sides, at over 65,000 views and almost 900 replies, I'd say that Propellerhead Reason is a lot more popular than many here would like to believe!

Could be but the Propeller head Record KVR Thread ran to 121 pages (yes you read that correctly) and that product is not even sold by Propellerheads any more AFAICT. This is a great thread discussion topic but definitely not nearly an indicator of product /concept success.

Curiosity might better describe it instead of popularity. Not saying it is not a very popular product but 121 pages did not help Record stay on Propellerhead product shelves for very long.

You can see how many pages that Record thread has for yourself here.

Still it is great discussing things like this and putting ideas forward. Props seem to be listening as well.

Fair point. That said, technically Record does still exist - its just called Reason 6 now. I was just merely making an observation on the apparent interest this has generated.

[christianmusicmaker]

Host Devs are likely to push existing Proprietary formats harder. Especially if Re does well.

...which is bad news for musicians everywhere. Less compatibility. Higher costs (unless you remain loyal to one host forever, which admittedly many do, but which shuts out new developers with innovative ideas... would we ever have had single-interface hosts with modular racks, freeze functions and PDC had it not been for Tracktion pioneering those things?).

Well for pretty much everything there is another side to it. Yes Re does appear to have split opinions pretty wide . At the end of the day Props are entitled to at least throw the concept out there and see what happens. But some will like it and some will not (devs and customers). I would prefer less formats to mull over but Props want their own slice of the DAW cake and are clearly trying another way to drive people into the Reason Eco System with Re.

It is an amazingly competitive DAW market and it is indeed possible that Props have started something that even they might not like (if other DAW devs with bigger Eco systems - hardware and software - offer all manner of creative deals for customers and devs in their own closed shops) It could get pretty complex for customers and devs if MOTU, Roland / Cakewalk, PreSonus and Yamaha / Steinberg e.t.c come up with their own way to get that 30% cut from devs. Time will tell. I would be surprised if they did not try if Props shop works.

Reason is on a journey from being one of the most immediate and intuitive programmes to being one of the least.

They will have to do something with the UI IMO. As Re will be hosted by Reason / Reason Essentials. It does IMO need to be improved.

To summarise, I would say that using Reason 6 as a rewire slave is far less attractive than at any time with previous versions. I think that Propellerhead have taken Reason on a route where it basically only had lasting appeal to those who use it in isolation as their main DAW.

I'm speaking as somebody who has used Reason since version 2, both standalone and a lot as a rewire slave. And these are just my own experiences for those who wish to listen

Props are hoping that VST users will use Rewire to get into the world of Re with a copy of a version of Reason. It could work as the convenience of plugin purchases and management for customers could be a very strong draw indeed over time. Devs appear to have an easier dev + Sale process compared to VST in theory.

One thing is certain....Propellerheads are about to find out just how eager their own userbase and crucially the wider DAW world are to try out Reason and Re. The failure of Record (a tailor made product for their own userbase) must make devs more than a bit cautious. Re could work but then again it could go the same way as Record in a few years, it is a gamble.