I am a registered user of Vir2' Electri6ity, which I purchased legally from a major music retailer. Vir2's website promises great technical support for their virtual instrument and states, "We always respond to queries within two business days, and often sooner than that.", but none of my submissions have ever received a reply. I have also contacted technical support at Big Fish Audio, who distribute Vir2's products, both by e-mail and by phone, and in my last two phone conversations I was told emphatically that, "There are no problems with Electri6ity", and that all of the issues I was trying to bring to their attention were caused by my "inability to understand how the program works". As a result, I am now asking other Electri6ity users to please perform a simple 6-step test so that the truth can be revealed.
1) Load any Electri6ity instrument that includes all of the available playing articulations (not a "Sustain Only" or "Sustain+Muted Only" instrument). Amps and effects are not involved in this test, so instruments in the "DI" folder (Les Paul DI.nki, Stratocaster DI.nki, etc.) are good choices.
2) Depress the D#5 keyswitch on your MIDI controller (or click that key on Kontakt's virtual keyboard). Electri6ity's GUI will now show that the currently active playing articulation is "Harmonics".
3) Click Electri6ity's "Settings" tab, and select the "Settings / Fretboard" page. The 3rd parameter from the top of that page will be "Fretboard / Position / Artificial Harmonics". Move the control knob for that parameter until its window displays "5 Fret".
4) Play any "E" note within a guitar's playing range on your MIDI controller (or Kontakt's virtual keyboard). You can click Electri6ity's "Fretboard" tab to visually verify that the program recognizes that are playing a 5th fret harmonic on the low "E" string. On a real guitar, this harmonic is an "E", 2 octaves above the pitch of the open string. Do you hear an "E", or do you hear a G# ? Grab a real guitar and compare its 5th fret harmonic to Electri6ity's. What do you hear?
5) Test the 5th fret harmonics for the 5 other strings. To do this you have to follow Vir2's rather bizarre string selection scheme that applies while the "Harmonics" playing articulation is active: "F" and "F#" notes within the normal playing range of a guitar play the "A" string, "G" or G#" notes play the "D" string, "A" or "A#" notes play the "G" string, "B" notes play the "B" string, and notes from "C" to "D#" play the high "E" string. Are the pitches that you hear 2 octaves above the corresponding open string? Do they match what you hear on a real guitar?
6) Go back to the "Settings / Fretboard" page and adjust the knob controlling the "Fretboard / Position / Artificial Harmonics" parameter and repeat these tests with settings of "7 Fret", "4 Fret", etc. Compare the pitches Electri6ity produces with those from a real guitar. I believe that you'll find that the only setting that produces the correct pitches is "12 Fret".
Here are 15 examples of errors in the Electri6ity User Manual that I want to share. On page 16, both the "Sustain" and the "Half-Muted" playing articulations are shown as being selected by playing the keyswitch B0 with the appropriate MIDI velocity - the correct keyswitch is B-1, as indicated on pages 27, 28, 29, 51, and 52. On page 49, the parameters "Playing / Trills (Speed) through Playing / Switch to Ghost Notes at Low velocity" are shown as being assigned to MIDI Continuous Controller #s 43 - 55, respectively. These are all wrong. The correct CC #s are 49, 50, 43, 44, 45, undefined, undefined, 46, 47, undefined, undefined, and undefined. You can confirm the correct CC #s by checking the "Settings / Playing" page. There you'll also be able to see that "Playing / Switch to Ghost Notes at Low Velocity" isn't even a parameter - "Switch to Ghost Notes at Low Velocity" is actually one of two possible settings for the "Playing / Muted Morph" parameter. When I tried to pass this information on to Big Fish Audio during our most recent phone conversation, they didn't want to hear anything about it - after all, "there are no problems with Electri6ity", and I'm the idiot who thinks that the harmonics are at the wrong pitches.
Please test the information that I have presented and respond with your own findings and comments. For the record, I am using the latest version of Electri6ity (1.1) on an Intel Mac Pro which is running OS X 10.6.8. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to read this and get involved in trying to improve Electri6ity.
Vir2 Electri6ity Users _ Please Read and Respond
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- KVRer
- 4 posts since 26 Mar, 2012
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- KVRian
- 667 posts since 27 Jul, 2010
Sorry to hear about your experience with Vir2's technical support.
My last encounter with them went really well. No issues at all really. Are their email reply's going into a spam folder?.. and maybe you just missed them?
I can't really test your harmonics problem. I don't actually play guitar (or even own one), and I'm not familiar with how they really work.. or how they should respond.
I don't even have the harmonics articulation mapped to my keyboard in Electri6ity (on any of my custom patches) to be honest. I just never use them.
If all the guitars are exhibiting the exact same issue, for all the harmonics in a given section.. either Vir2 totally messed up globally, when they were compiling all the samples together for the final package (maybe a naming convention error that missed or substituted a whole set of samples incorrectly).. or.. they really meant for them to be exactly that way, for whatever reason.
In any case, it would be nice for them to at least test it.. and get back to you with a reasonable explanation, or confirmation that there is in fact a problem. I think if you can get email working back and forth with them, it would really help.
Regarding the User Manual errors.. I think that there are some others, besides the ones you listed as well.
I used to work for a company that designed books, manuals and packaging for a variety of major companies (like Adobe...), and I can tell you that about 90% of the time, the information we were given to print, would be different by the time the product actually shipped.
The problem is.. you've basically got two totally unrelated companies (graphics v.s. whatever) trying to manage a ton of information back and forth, with broad changes happening with various aspects of each project.. every day of production.
We'd get dailies for changes, and would keep up as best we could.. but the closer you get to deadlines.. the greater the chance of last minute changes on the software side, not getting updated on the printers side.
It just happens.. You've probably seen it with other products as well, I certainly have. It's a very common (and unfortunate) reality.
Anyway.. I hope you get this resolved. I know there are a bunch of Electri6ity users here that may be able to test, and back you up on these issues you are having.
My last encounter with them went really well. No issues at all really. Are their email reply's going into a spam folder?.. and maybe you just missed them?
I can't really test your harmonics problem. I don't actually play guitar (or even own one), and I'm not familiar with how they really work.. or how they should respond.
I don't even have the harmonics articulation mapped to my keyboard in Electri6ity (on any of my custom patches) to be honest. I just never use them.
If all the guitars are exhibiting the exact same issue, for all the harmonics in a given section.. either Vir2 totally messed up globally, when they were compiling all the samples together for the final package (maybe a naming convention error that missed or substituted a whole set of samples incorrectly).. or.. they really meant for them to be exactly that way, for whatever reason.
In any case, it would be nice for them to at least test it.. and get back to you with a reasonable explanation, or confirmation that there is in fact a problem. I think if you can get email working back and forth with them, it would really help.
Regarding the User Manual errors.. I think that there are some others, besides the ones you listed as well.
I used to work for a company that designed books, manuals and packaging for a variety of major companies (like Adobe...), and I can tell you that about 90% of the time, the information we were given to print, would be different by the time the product actually shipped.
The problem is.. you've basically got two totally unrelated companies (graphics v.s. whatever) trying to manage a ton of information back and forth, with broad changes happening with various aspects of each project.. every day of production.
We'd get dailies for changes, and would keep up as best we could.. but the closer you get to deadlines.. the greater the chance of last minute changes on the software side, not getting updated on the printers side.
It just happens.. You've probably seen it with other products as well, I certainly have. It's a very common (and unfortunate) reality.
Anyway.. I hope you get this resolved. I know there are a bunch of Electri6ity users here that may be able to test, and back you up on these issues you are having.
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- KVRist
- 366 posts since 30 Jun, 2011
Hi.
You are not alone.
Here is my problems with Vir2: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 74#4862974
I wait 4 month for fixes
No replies from tech support.
You are not alone.
Here is my problems with Vir2: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 74#4862974
I wait 4 month for fixes
No replies from tech support.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 4 posts since 26 Mar, 2012
Thank you for confirming the harmonics problem in Vir2's Electri6ity, bill45. As mentioned in my original message, I am using the latest version (1.1) of the program. I have been very disappointed that after posting this information on 3 Forums (KVR, Sweetwater, and Nothernsounds), only 2 people have taken the time to respond. I chose to address the problem with harmonics because it was an issue I thought I could clearly explain and provide an easy test through which other Electri6ity users could confirm this problem. My hope was that if enough people were aware of this issue and contacted Vir2 / Big Fish Audio, we could get the updates to the program and its documentation that are so desperately needed. There are many problems besides the harmonics and the 15 documentation errors I described that need to be addressed, but Vir2 seems to ignore all requests for technical support, and Big Fish Audio refuses to admit to any problems with Electri6ity and prefers to insult me with comments about "my inability to understand how the program works". ALL Electri6ity users deserve far better product support than we are getting, but until a large number of us take actions to compel Vir2 / Big Fish Audio to stop ignoring us I fear that nothing will change. PLEASE, Electri6ity users, PLEASE take 10 minutes to perform the test I described for checking the harmonics, verify the documentation errors I reported, post your findings here, and then make it clear to Vir2 / Big Fish Audio via e-mail and/or phone that you expect prompt updates to the software and its documentation. Thank you.
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- KVRist
- 285 posts since 25 Jul, 2006
Hey 91Tonewheels,
I'm sorry you having troubles with Electri6ity. I can explain some of the issues you have: the difference between the manual and the current version of Electri6ity is because of the 1.1 update where some things have changed while the manual didn't change and due to changes from the version which was current when the manual was done and the release version.
Regarding the harmonics. There is no mess-up, there is a misunderstanding. Let me explain:
On a real guitar the harmonic notes aren't exactly on the frets but sometimes slightely before and slightely after the frets. The tab view of Electri6ity can't display notes slightely before and after frets, that's why they are displayed on the fret with the nearest distance.
Take a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar_harmonics
In your example you say the 5th fret harmonic is wrong, because it should be an E, not an G#, but if you look at the guitar harmonics theory, the G# is slightely before the fret, while the E can be found slightely after the fret.
Also take a look here:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... monics.svg
I hope this explains the logic behind this.
The natural harmonics included in Electri6ity are those which are produced easily on a real guitar and are those harmonics everybody has in mind when thinking about natural harmonics. There are a lot more harmonics on a real guitar, but some of them are very quiet and would be audible with a lot of distortion only. Those aren't included.
I'm sorry you having troubles with Electri6ity. I can explain some of the issues you have: the difference between the manual and the current version of Electri6ity is because of the 1.1 update where some things have changed while the manual didn't change and due to changes from the version which was current when the manual was done and the release version.
Regarding the harmonics. There is no mess-up, there is a misunderstanding. Let me explain:
On a real guitar the harmonic notes aren't exactly on the frets but sometimes slightely before and slightely after the frets. The tab view of Electri6ity can't display notes slightely before and after frets, that's why they are displayed on the fret with the nearest distance.
Take a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar_harmonics
In your example you say the 5th fret harmonic is wrong, because it should be an E, not an G#, but if you look at the guitar harmonics theory, the G# is slightely before the fret, while the E can be found slightely after the fret.
Also take a look here:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... monics.svg
I hope this explains the logic behind this.
The natural harmonics included in Electri6ity are those which are produced easily on a real guitar and are those harmonics everybody has in mind when thinking about natural harmonics. There are a lot more harmonics on a real guitar, but some of them are very quiet and would be audible with a lot of distortion only. Those aren't included.
Cheers,
Benjamin
Virtual Instrument Developer @ Vir2 / Bigfish Audio
Benjamin
Virtual Instrument Developer @ Vir2 / Bigfish Audio
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 4 posts since 26 Mar, 2012
Thank you for taking the time to respond, Benjamin, but your comments about Electri6ity's harmonics are incorrect. The program allows you to play harmonics that on a real guitar would be produced by playing an "open" (unfretted) string while very lightly touching the string at a harmonic "node" along its length. As you state, there are actually a large number of these nodes, and their positions do not always precisely match the positions of the frets. On Electri6ity's "Settings" page you'll find the parameter "Fretboard / Position / Artificial Harmonics" which offers choices of "By AMT", "Between 2/3 Fret", "3 Fret", "4 Fret", "5 Fret", "7 Fret", "9 Fret", and "12 Fret". Let's work backwards from the "12 Fret" setting, which is the only one that produces the correct pitches (i.e. an "E" harmonic an octave above the open low "E" string's pitch. Now, change the setting to "9 Fret", play the low "E" string, and the pitch of the harmonic Electri6ity produces is a "B" - not the G# that it should be. Change the setting to "7 Fret", play the low "E" string, and the pitch of the harmonic that Electri6ity produces is a "E" - not the "B" that it should be. Change the setting to "5 Fret", play the low "E" string, and the pitch of the harmonic Electri6ity produces is a G# - not the "E" that it should be. If you check all of the remaining options, a pattern becomes clear - all of the setting other than "12 Fret" are "off by 1". The "9 Fret" setting produces what are actually "7 Fret" harmonics, the "7 Fret" setting produces what are actually "5 Fret" harmonics, and so on. My guess is that the "9 Fret" option was never supposed to exist. There is no reason to include this option, since the harmonics produced on a real guitar at this position are the same pitches as those produced at the 4th Fret. Someone at Vir2 could simply change the list of options for the "Fretboard / Position / Artificial Harmonics" parameter and fix this bug in just a few minutes, but no one at Vir2 or Big Fish Audio seems to think that product support matters at all.
As for your explanation about the documentation errors being attributable to the User Manual having been produced at the time of the original release of Electri6ity, and not reflecting changes made in the version 1.1 update, it's inexcusable to update software and fail to revise its documentation. You can download the Electri6ity User Manual from Vir2's website today, and it will be exactly the same as the printed version that customers get when they buy Electri6ity. Vir2 doesn't have to print new User Manuals and mail them to customers all around the world - they just need to make an up-to-date, accurate version available for download (ideally with a revision number and release date clearly shown, so that users can see at a glance whether or not they need to download the file. The truly shocking thing here is that my efforts to try to help Vir2 improve Electri6ity have either been totally ignored or resulted in my being verbally abused. That sort of "Technical Support" is unconscionable - regardless of whether customer's statements are accurate or not.
As for your explanation about the documentation errors being attributable to the User Manual having been produced at the time of the original release of Electri6ity, and not reflecting changes made in the version 1.1 update, it's inexcusable to update software and fail to revise its documentation. You can download the Electri6ity User Manual from Vir2's website today, and it will be exactly the same as the printed version that customers get when they buy Electri6ity. Vir2 doesn't have to print new User Manuals and mail them to customers all around the world - they just need to make an up-to-date, accurate version available for download (ideally with a revision number and release date clearly shown, so that users can see at a glance whether or not they need to download the file. The truly shocking thing here is that my efforts to try to help Vir2 improve Electri6ity have either been totally ignored or resulted in my being verbally abused. That sort of "Technical Support" is unconscionable - regardless of whether customer's statements are accurate or not.
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- KVRAF
- 2604 posts since 15 Jun, 2006
On the Diamond Head/Metallica tune, "am I evil", there's a part in the intro,
Where harmonics are played on the 7th fret of the D G A and E strings.When I do this with Electri6ity, it doesn't sound right.Prominy SC nails it.
I'd rather use Electri6ity.How can We do this part with Electri6ity.
Nice to here from You Benjamin, hope all is well.I'd be glad to send you a midi file.
Where harmonics are played on the 7th fret of the D G A and E strings.When I do this with Electri6ity, it doesn't sound right.Prominy SC nails it.
I'd rather use Electri6ity.How can We do this part with Electri6ity.
Nice to here from You Benjamin, hope all is well.I'd be glad to send you a midi file.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 4 posts since 26 Mar, 2012
bill45,
To play the harmonics from the intro to the Diamond Head / Metallica song, "Am I evil?" (which are actually played at the 7th fret on a real guitar) with Electri6ity, you'll need to go to Electri6ity's "Settings" page and set the "Fretboard / Position / Artificial Harmonics" parameter to "9 Fret". As I detailed in my last post, selecting "9 Fret" actually produces 7th fret harmonics, selecting "7 Fret" actually produces 5th fret harmonics, etc. Thank you for providing this real-world verification of the problem with harmonics in Electri6ity, and noting that Prominy plays this part correctly.
To play the harmonics from the intro to the Diamond Head / Metallica song, "Am I evil?" (which are actually played at the 7th fret on a real guitar) with Electri6ity, you'll need to go to Electri6ity's "Settings" page and set the "Fretboard / Position / Artificial Harmonics" parameter to "9 Fret". As I detailed in my last post, selecting "9 Fret" actually produces 7th fret harmonics, selecting "7 Fret" actually produces 5th fret harmonics, etc. Thank you for providing this real-world verification of the problem with harmonics in Electri6ity, and noting that Prominy plays this part correctly.